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Re: Thickness IQI Based on
Posted by: Mehmet Bal (PID_1807), E-mail: malibal@tr.net, on December 15, 2003 at 21:48 :
In Reply to: Re: Thickness IQI Based on posted by : S.V.Swamy , E-mail: svsndt@rediffmail.com, on December 15, 2003 at 15:35 :
Dear Mr. S.V. Swamy,
This subject was originated by me. Would you please read original message and specifically answer wy question. What wil be the thicness that the penetrameter is based for 8.71 mm wall thickness of 2 inches elipticall shot? 10.31 mm or 19.02 mm i.a.w ASME T-276. Many thanks for your reply.
Mehmet Bal
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Dear Mehmet Bal,
: I don't see any basic problem. When you first wrote that the pipe is being shot with an elliptic exosure, it was clear that it is a double-wall double image exposure. So, the IQI has to be based on the thickness of both the walls and the reinforcements of one weld. That would truly represent the metal path. Since any discontinuity in the pipe nearer to the source will have the maximum unsharpness, the IQI needs to be placed on the OD of the pipe nearest to the Source. If that is not feasible, a hollow block of the thickness and the diameter of the pipe should be used and the technique validated.
: The other replies were based on the assumption of a double-wall Single Image technique.
: Regards.
: Swamy
: : Thank you very much Dear All who deals with the thichness which the penetrameter depends on, I would like give requirements of MIL-STD-453C,
: : 5.8.5 Double wall exposures: For double wall radiography where both walls are to be inspected, a penetrameter shall be placed corresponding to the double wall thickness on the source side of the upper wall in such a manner that it is subject to the same maximum distortion and magnification as any area of the part to be inspected. The maximum source to film distance shall be based on the outside diameter of the tube or pipe. When impractical to do the above, a double wall thickness penetrameter may be placed on the source side of a block equivalent to the combined thickness of both walls..........Which is the contradiction of ASME_v. Some other contradiction of explanations:
: : 1. (ASNT Continuing Education Radiography Method pp.150): IT IS GENRALLY REQURED THAT THE MAERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER BE EQUAL TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED.
: : 2. (GENERAL DYNAMICS Programmed Instruction Handbook Volume-IV pp.6-78): IT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT THAT THE AMOUNT OF MATERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER IS EQUAL IN THICKNESS TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED.
: : Some
: : : Ed
: : : Can you give little more specific about the interpretation year, edition etc....
: : : Regards
: : : Zeki
: : : : : Mehmet Bey,
: : : : : According to ASME-V article-2 T-276 (a) The thickness on which the IQI is based on the nominal single wall thickness plus the estimated weld reinforcement….. Actual weld measurement of the weld reinforcement is not required.
: : : : : So in your case (10.31 mm) you can use set B type of panateremeter.
: : : : : Regrads,
: : : : : Zeki Cosku Gokce
: : : : : : Can any one answer the following: 2 inches but weld is radiograped eliptically. The wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinsforcemnt is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276 what will be the thickness that the penetrameter based on. In another way the thickness that the penetrameter based on will be (8.71mm+1.6mm=10.31mm) or (8.71mm+8.71mm+1.6mm=19.02mm)?
: : : : : : Looking forward to have your answer with appreciation.
: : : : : : Many Thanks in advance
: : : : : : Mehmet Bal
: : : : I would like to add my opinion on this issue. This has been debated often in the past. The correct thickness for your shot is the single nominal wall thickness plus the maximum reinforcement allowed by the referencing code section. In your case you have 1.6 mm on the face and 1.6mm on the root. Therefore, your correct thickness is 11.91mm. I have an interprepretation on this by ASME B31.3 code comittee which clearly states the height of reinforcement is for each face of the weld and can be added together when determining penetrameter requirements for radiographing girth welds.
------------ End Original Message ------------

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Re: Thickness IQI Based on S.V.Swamy 15:34 Dec-16-2003 (3)

Re: Thickness IQI Based on steve hornby 23:00 Dec-16-2003 (2)

Re: Thickness IQI Based on Ed T. 00:12 Dec-19-2003 (1)

Re: Thickness IQI Based on Ed T. 00:14 Dec-19-2003 (0)

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----------- Start Original Message ----------- : Dear Mr. S.V. Swamy, : This subject was originated by me. Would you please read original message and specifically answer wy question. What wil be the thicness that the penetrameter is based for 8.71 mm wall thickness of 2 inches elipticall shot? 10.31 mm or 19.02 mm i.a.w ASME T-276. Many thanks for your reply. : Mehmet Bal : : Dear Mehmet Bal, : : I don't see any basic problem. When you first wrote that the pipe is being shot with an elliptic exosure, it was clear that it is a double-wall double image exposure. So, the IQI has to be based on the thickness of both the walls and the reinforcements of one weld. That would truly represent the metal path. Since any discontinuity in the pipe nearer to the source will have the maximum unsharpness, the IQI needs to be placed on the OD of the pipe nearest to the Source. If that is not feasible, a hollow block of the thickness and the diameter of the pipe should be used and the technique validated. : : The other replies were based on the assumption of a double-wall Single Image technique. : : Regards. : : Swamy : : : Thank you very much Dear All who deals with the thichness which the penetrameter depends on, I would like give requirements of MIL-STD-453C, : : : 5.8.5 Double wall exposures: For double wall radiography where both walls are to be inspected, a penetrameter shall be placed corresponding to the double wall thickness on the source side of the upper wall in such a manner that it is subject to the same maximum distortion and magnification as any area of the part to be inspected. The maximum source to film distance shall be based on the outside diameter of the tube or pipe. When impractical to do the above, a double wall thickness penetrameter may be placed on the source side of a block equivalent to the combined thickness of both walls..........Which is the contradiction of ASME_v. Some other contradiction of explanations: : : : 1. (ASNT Continuing Education Radiography Method pp.150): IT IS GENRALLY REQURED THAT THE MAERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER BE EQUAL TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED. : : : 2. (GENERAL DYNAMICS Programmed Instruction Handbook Volume-IV pp.6-78): IT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT THAT THE AMOUNT OF MATERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER IS EQUAL IN THICKNESS TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED. : : : Some : : : : Ed : : : : Can you give little more specific about the interpretation year, edition etc.... : : : : Regards : : : : Zeki : : : : : : Mehmet Bey, : : : : : : According to ASME-V article-2 T-276 (a) The thickness on which the IQI is based on the nominal single wall thickness plus the estimated weld reinforcement….. Actual weld measurement of the weld reinforcement is not required. : : : : : : So in your case (10.31 mm) you can use set B type of panateremeter. : : : : : : Regrads, : : : : : : Zeki Cosku Gokce : : : : : : : Can any one answer the following: 2 inches but weld is radiograped eliptically. The wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinsforcemnt is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276 what will be the thickness that the penetrameter based on. In another way the thickness that the penetrameter based on will be (8.71mm+1.6mm=10.31mm) or (8.71mm+8.71mm+1.6mm=19.02mm)? : : : : : : : Looking forward to have your answer with appreciation. : : : : : : : Many Thanks in advance : : : : : : : Mehmet Bal : : : : : I would like to add my opinion on this issue. This has been debated often in the past. The correct thickness for your shot is the single nominal wall thickness plus the maximum reinforcement allowed by the referencing code section. In your case you have 1.6 mm on the face and 1.6mm on the root. Therefore, your correct thickness is 11.91mm. I have an interprepretation on this by ASME B31.3 code comittee which clearly states the height of reinforcement is for each face of the weld and can be added together when determining penetrameter requirements for radiographing girth welds. ------------ End Original Message ------------

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