Re: Ethics and Verifiability

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Re: Ethics and Verifiability
Posted by: Jim Johnson , E-mail: jjohnfly@mindspring.com, on May 29, 1999 at 18:28:42 :
In Reply to: Re: Ethics and Verifiability posted by : Terry Oldberg on May 14, 1999 at 01:50:02:
Have you had an instance where an NDT vendor mislead you
as to their capabilities? Have you increased your risks
by using manual NDT where a computer controled version would
increase POD?
In my experience NDT Labs are hired to "scan this and report"
or "inspect this to code" which they do. They were contracted
to perform a specific act by a cognizant authority who, in every case
knows exactly the inspection problems at hand...not!!!
Most of us inspector types do not think of error probablity.
A few of us who have a better unstanding of human nature do.
We all do our best to perform to contract and process procedure and we
do miss things and report false positives. As long as we rely
on our eyeballs and finger tips we will error. Variability is
normal, especially for humans.
I have never heard of a NDT contract stating that one
must find such and such a discontinuity in such and such an
area with a .999997 probablility of success. Chances are good
that the cognizant engineer does not even have the remotest
idea what the probability of a specific flaw existing is a finite matrix
actually is much less the NDT contractor. So, does the vendor
inform his client that their engineers cannot properly
define a scope of work or does the vendor perform to contract.
Anyway, there are two sides to the ethics issue and regardless
the contract rules.
Jim Johnson

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Re: Ethics and Verifiability Terry Oldberg 18:24:59 6/06/1999 (0)

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: Have you had an instance where an NDT vendor mislead you : as to their capabilities? Have you increased your risks : by using manual NDT where a computer controled version would : increase POD? : In my experience NDT Labs are hired to "scan this and report" : or "inspect this to code" which they do. They were contracted : to perform a specific act by a cognizant authority who, in every case : knows exactly the inspection problems at hand...not!!! : Most of us inspector types do not think of error probablity. : A few of us who have a better unstanding of human nature do. : We all do our best to perform to contract and process procedure and we : do miss things and report false positives. As long as we rely : on our eyeballs and finger tips we will error. Variability is : normal, especially for humans. : I have never heard of a NDT contract stating that one : must find such and such a discontinuity in such and such an : area with a .999997 probablility of success. Chances are good : that the cognizant engineer does not even have the remotest : idea what the probability of a specific flaw existing is a finite matrix : actually is much less the NDT contractor. So, does the vendor : inform his client that their engineers cannot properly : define a scope of work or does the vendor perform to contract. : Anyway, there are two sides to the ethics issue and regardless : the contract rules. : Jim Johnson

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