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- since 1996 -
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Technical Discussions
mj
mj
09:38 Nov-20-2008
Repair after Heat Treatment

Hellooo alll...... Iam facing a problem right now please help me to sort it out.... i did a carbon steel vessel TOFD with 72mm thickness. after heat treatment we found a repair on one joint ( they forgot to attend the repair first time) with 100 mm length and 26mm depth with 5 mm size. After the repair scanning manufacture telling us to submit a report with out Repair indication. And they are saying up to 35mm it’s not required to Heat treat again. Please let me know if manufacture is right or not..

Thanks in advance
Cheers



 
 Reply 
 
S.V.Swamy
Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex , India, Joined Feb 2001, 787

S.V.Swamy

Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex ,
India,
Joined Feb 2001
787
05:37 Nov-20-2008
Re: Repair after Heat Treatment
Manufacture could be right about heat treatment not being needed (you can discuss with them in a friendly way about the procedure and specifications), but they certainly have no right to ask you to submit a report suppressing the facts of repair. You should go to the higher echelons of management about the etical violations of personnel.

Swamy
Quality and NDT Expert

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Hellooo alll...... Iam facing a problem right now please help me to sort it out.... i did a carbon steel vessel TOFD with 72mm thickness. after heat treatment we found a repair on one joint ( they forgot to attend the repair first time) with 100 mm length and 26mm depth with 5 mm size. After the repair scanning manufacture telling us to submit a report with out Repair indication. And they are saying up to 35mm it’s not required to Heat treat again. Please let me know if manufacture is right or not..
: Thanks in advance
: Cheers
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
07:19 Nov-20-2008
Re: Repair after Heat Treatment
mj

I agree with Swamy on the 1st part of his response. It is not your concern if the fabricator chooses not to repeat the PWHT after repair. However i dont think you need to make a big fuss. If the repair has removed the original defect and not put anything back in then you HAVE to issue a report giving the all clear. However the nature of your reporting should make it obvious to anyone familiar with review of NDE reports the sequence and timing of events so I dont think you need to approach upper management about ethical violations, especially if you wish to maintain a good working relationship with your customer.

Presumably you have 3 reports now (or will have). First for the pre-PWHT test of the complete weld defining the extent and location of the unacceptable indication, second post-PWHT of the complete weld (with an illustrative report # of say 1234) reporting the same extent and location of the unacceptable indication and then the 3rd report - now the test restricted to the repair area and say 100 mm either side and the time of test clearly stated as "after repair" - in which you clear the unacceptable indication and give it the report #1234R. This is the practice followed in radiography and allows the tying together of the reports which report and clear the defect . That wraps it up as far as you are concerned unless the fabricator has a change of heart or is instructed to repeat the PWHT then you may be called back for a final post-PWHT inspection!

Finally, once you have decided on your report information dont let anyone persuade you to amend it unless they can convince you that you have made an error in reporting.

Hope this helps

Nigel


----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Manufacture could be right about heat treatment not being needed (you can discuss with them in a friendly way about the procedure and specifications), but they certainly have no right to ask you to submit a report suppressing the facts of repair. You should go to the higher echelons of management about the etical violations of personnel.
: Swamy
: Quality and NDT Expert
: : Hellooo alll...... Iam facing a problem right now please help me to sort it out.... i did a carbon steel vessel TOFD with 72mm thickness. after heat treatment we found a repair on one joint ( they forgot to attend the repair first time) with 100 mm length and 26mm depth with 5 mm size. After the repair scanning manufacture telling us to submit a report with out Repair indication. And they are saying up to 35mm it’s not required to Heat treat again. Please let me know if manufacture is right or not..
: : Thanks in advance
: : Cheers
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
 Reply 
 
Afshin Agha Amiri
Consultant, NDT/QC/WELD INSPECTION
Iran, Joined Nov 2005, 20

Afshin Agha Amiri

Consultant, NDT/QC/WELD INSPECTION
Iran,
Joined Nov 2005
20
05:53 Nov-23-2008
Re: Repair after Heat Treatment
----------- Start Original Message -----------
Dear Friend,
For necessary or no to again PWHT after repaired area which have been PWHT,you can refer to ASME-Sec.VIII-Div.1-UCS-56 if your design code is ASME.
: Hellooo alll...... Iam facing a problem right now please help me to sort it out.... i did a carbon steel vessel TOFD with 72mm thickness. after heat treatment we found a repair on one joint ( they forgot to attend the repair first time) with 100 mm length and 26mm depth with 5 mm size. After the repair scanning manufacture telling us to submit a report with out Repair indication. And they are saying up to 35mm it’s not required to Heat treat again. Please let me know if manufacture is right or not..
: Thanks in advance
: Cheers
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
 Reply 
 
bob sudharmin
Engineering, Reliability and Integrity Eng
Shell Malaysia Trading, Malaysia, Joined Jan 2008, 54

bob sudharmin

Engineering, Reliability and Integrity Eng
Shell Malaysia Trading,
Malaysia,
Joined Jan 2008
54
01:40 Nov-24-2008
Re: Repair after Heat Treatment
The main reason PWHT is done is to relieve stress due to welding. Obviously, if you have to repair a component (by welding) that was specified to be PWHT, you need to carry out PWHT.

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Dear Friend,
: For necessary or no to again PWHT after repaired area which have been PWHT,you can refer to ASME-Sec.VIII-Div.1-UCS-56 if your design code is ASME.
: : Hellooo alll...... Iam facing a problem right now please help me to sort it out.... i did a carbon steel vessel TOFD with 72mm thickness. after heat treatment we found a repair on one joint ( they forgot to attend the repair first time) with 100 mm length and 26mm depth with 5 mm size. After the repair scanning manufacture telling us to submit a report with out Repair indication. And they are saying up to 35mm it’s not required to Heat treat again. Please let me know if manufacture is right or not..
: : Thanks in advance
: : Cheers
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
 Reply 
 
Afshin
Consultant, NDT/QC/WELD INSPECTION
Iran, Joined Nov 2005, 20

Afshin

Consultant, NDT/QC/WELD INSPECTION
Iran,
Joined Nov 2005
20
05:35 Nov-26-2008
Re: Repair after Heat Treatment

----------- Start Original Message -----------
No ,you can refer to mentioned ASME code add.and note to reqirements of welding after PWHT.
: The main reason PWHT is done is to relieve stress due to welding. Obviously, if you have to repair a component (by welding) that was specified to be PWHT, you need to carry out PWHT.
: : Dear Friend,
: : For necessary or no to again PWHT after repaired area which have been PWHT,you can refer to ASME-Sec.VIII-Div.1-UCS-56 if your design code is ASME.
: : : Hellooo alll...... Iam facing a problem right now please help me to sort it out.... i did a carbon steel vessel TOFD with 72mm thickness. after heat treatment we found a repair on one joint ( they forgot to attend the repair first time) with 100 mm length and 26mm depth with 5 mm size. After the repair scanning manufacture telling us to submit a report with out Repair indication. And they are saying up to 35mm it’s not required to Heat treat again. Please let me know if manufacture is right or not..
: : : Thanks in advance
: : : Cheers
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
06:10 Nov-26-2008
Re: Repair after Heat Treatment
Good point, Afshin. And if PWHT IS required after weld repair, then the final acceptance NDE should be after that post-repair HT. But if the manufacturer decides to omit this process on the basis of his/her interpretation of the Code, then its for the Authorised Inspector or the Owner's representative agree or not and either to allow this or to inform the manufacturer that the product will not clear final acceptance unless the post-repair HT is performed. Resolution of any conflicting opinions will decide if the NDE technician is called back to repeat the inspection or not.

The NDE technician's responsibility is to perform the test according to procedure and produce detailed factual reports including scope, time (stage) and outcome of test. Establishing or arguing one way or the other about the Code requirements for heat treatment are outside the scope of his/her responsibility.

Cheers

Nigel

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: No ,you can refer to mentioned ASME code add.and note to reqirements of welding after PWHT.
: : The main reason PWHT is done is to relieve stress due to welding. Obviously, if you have to repair a component (by welding) that was specified to be PWHT, you need to carry out PWHT.
: : : Dear Friend,
: : : For necessary or no to again PWHT after repaired area which have been PWHT,you can refer to ASME-Sec.VIII-Div.1-UCS-56 if your design code is ASME.
: : : : Hellooo alll...... Iam facing a problem right now please help me to sort it out.... i did a carbon steel vessel TOFD with 72mm thickness. after heat treatment we found a repair on one joint ( they forgot to attend the repair first time) with 100 mm length and 26mm depth with 5 mm size. After the repair scanning manufacture telling us to submit a report with out Repair indication. And they are saying up to 35mm it’s not required to Heat treat again. Please let me know if manufacture is right or not..
: : : : Thanks in advance
: : : : Cheers
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
 Reply 
 

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