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Career Discussions
Jim Draper
Consultant, ASNT Level III MT PT RT VT
Draper NDT, USA, Joined Jul 2009, 99

Jim Draper

Consultant, ASNT Level III MT PT RT VT
Draper NDT,
USA,
Joined Jul 2009
99
15:24 May-28-2010
NAS 410

Hi all. I work for a company that currently certifies it's NDT personnel to MIL Standard 410 D (very out of date). They are considering switching to NAS 410. The "on the job training" requirements of NAS 410 are greater than the old military standard. My question is, If someone has been certified as a level II to the old standard for a couple years, then the company switches to the new standard, does that person have to document additional OJT hours to keep his cert? Would he be grandfathered in? They have been doing the classroom training per NAS 410 already.

Thanks in advance.

 
 Reply 
 
Michel Couture
NDT Inspector,
consultant, Canada, Joined Sep 2006, 868

Michel Couture

NDT Inspector,
consultant,
Canada,
Joined Sep 2006
868
19:37 May-28-2010
Re: NAS 410
In Reply to Jim Draper at 15:24 May-28-2010 (Opening).

Jim,

It is better to cross your t and dot your i. I don't think that technicians should be grandfathered to NAS 410 because they were MIL-STD-410 specially if there is some difference. My suggestion is to see what more needs to be done for the technican to meet NAS 410, document everything and if needed get them to write a new exam as well.

You know what they say: "Better be safe than sorry".

 
 Reply 
 
Amy
NDT Inspector, - -
USA, Joined Jan 2009, 87

Amy

NDT Inspector, - -
USA,
Joined Jan 2009
87
14:40 Jun-01-2010
Re: NAS 410
In Reply to Michel Couture at 19:37 May-28-2010 .

Hi Jim,
I don't have a copy of MIL-STD-410 Rev. D but if I remember correctly the changes are fairly significant such as an increase in the number of training hours for Level I and II personnel. I think PT was 16 hours total and with NAS 410 is now 32 and so forth with the other methods. The NAS 410 also requires a firm callout of a Responsible Level III as opposed to just a Level III, which desiginates just one person to be fully responsible to oversee the requirements of the standard and processes are carried out. Multiple Level III's are allowed, but 1 desiginated in writing as the Responsible.

If I'm not mistaked the Levels for certification and qualification are slightly different, but the requirements to qualify vary quite a bit. Personally I was a SNT-TC-1A baby and had to scramble to find training records to meet the increased training hour requirements in NAS 410 and that is not grandfathered in. Who takes more MT classes? My Level III also required a hands on practical as well as a procedure prep test, not all that unusual, but I have an ASNT Level III, so kind of a pain to coordinate at first.

Sorry I'm not more specific but without a copy in front of me, truly do not remember all the small changes. I will not be that hard to adapt, just be careful of the "special requirements" and you will have to completely rewrite your written practice. Good luck and if you need any further information, feel free to contact me personally. I have a few inside tips on NAS 410 that have been poined out to me by some very special Auditors.

Have a great day.

 
 Reply 
 
Michel Couture
NDT Inspector,
consultant, Canada, Joined Sep 2006, 868

Michel Couture

NDT Inspector,
consultant,
Canada,
Joined Sep 2006
868
03:07 Jun-03-2010
Re: NAS 410
In Reply to Amy at 14:40 Jun-01-2010 .

As someone pointed out to me when I first posted on this topic. MIL-STD-410 has been superseded by NAS 410. So for many of us, we don't have a choice but to get with the program. :-(

 
 Reply 
 
Vijaya raghavan
Consultant,
Freelance consultant, India, Joined Dec 2009, 12

Vijaya raghavan

Consultant,
Freelance consultant,
India,
Joined Dec 2009
12
06:35 Jun-04-2010
Re: NAS 410
In Reply to Michel Couture at 03:07 Jun-03-2010 .

Mil-std-410 E was replaced by NAS 410 . So far 3 issues have come. 1996, 2003 and the latest is 2008 edition. In NAS 410 training and certification procedures are clearly spelt ( for ex, Qualification, experience, training hours, Examination : method, specific and practical and also exemption of writing method exam when the person hold a valid Level II or Level III ASNT certificate)
If any specific doubt is there on NAS 410 i can answer.

 
 Reply 
 
Jim Draper
Consultant, ASNT Level III MT PT RT VT
Draper NDT, USA, Joined Jul 2009, 99

Jim Draper

Consultant, ASNT Level III MT PT RT VT
Draper NDT,
USA,
Joined Jul 2009
99
14:48 Jun-04-2010
Re: NAS 410
In Reply to Vijaya raghavan at 06:35 Jun-04-2010 .

Thanks for the replys. Paragraph 6.3.2 in the latest rev of NAS 410 says: "Equivalent experiance: For personnel previously certified under NAS 410, EN 4179 or other recognized NDT qualification program, the adequacy and equivalency of their previous experience to the requirements of Table II or III shall be determined and documented by the Responsible Level 3 or NANDTB."

My idea is, if someone has been working as a level II under MIL Standard 410 D for a period of time, say 6 months, I would count that as equivalent experiance. Does that sound acceptable.

 
 Reply 
 
Amy
NDT Inspector, - -
USA, Joined Jan 2009, 87

Amy

NDT Inspector, - -
USA,
Joined Jan 2009
87
15:26 Jun-07-2010
Re: NAS 410
In Reply to Jim Draper at 14:48 Jun-04-2010 .

Jim,
I would agree that the experience is equivalent, actually I would consider any experience in that method and technique equivalent. I perform very minor site specific OJT training, more on procedures and specific technique and requirements, to keep the technician up to date with what we use specifically on site.

With that being said, the experience can be taken into consideration and Para. 1.2.1 states that personnel certified to previous revisions do not have to meet this revision until their cert expires. Unfortunately that only buys you time to meet the standard. If you recert by points, you will notice as well that the Annexes between NAS 410 and ASNT are different as well so I have to maintain records for each, (most do cross over, but some not).

I have found that previous training is accepted, but is required to be documented as well by the Responsible Level III as to it's equivalency. If your personnel don't have the documented required training hours it may just be easier to provide more training and document in accordance with this standard. I know it was for me :)

There's a fairly helpful presentation by AIA on the changes to Rev. 3, but coming from the MIL-STD is probably going to require a page by page review. Good luck!

http://www.pri-network.org/resource/attach/869/MajorChangesNAS410EN4179bySteveGaylord.ppt

 
 Reply 
 
Samuel D
Samuel D
07:28 Feb-23-2013
Re: NAS 410
In Reply to Vijaya raghavan at 06:35 Jun-04-2010 .

sir I have completed ASNT Level II but I heard about NAS 410. is it greater then ASNT Level II. who will certify the NAS 410 holders? can you please explain from top to bottom?

 
 Reply 
 
Santosh Narayan
Santosh Narayan
04:47 Feb-28-2013
Re: NAS 410
In Reply to Samuel D at 07:28 Feb-23-2013 .

Dear Samuel

There is no much difference in NAS410 and ASNT Level-2 provided NAS410 level-2 will work for aerospace sector and certified to a specific company and specific machine setup by the recognised level-3 of the company. here in NAs410 unlike ASNT Level-3 needs to be certified by the each and individual primes Like AIRBUS, Boeing, Honeywell ..etc then only Level-3 can certify his level-2 for the same. as for as the level-2 certification requirement the company you are working shall have at least one Aerospace customer and then a NAS410 Level-3, without a Aerospace customer NAS410 Level-2 certification is not possible, people do certify but it will not worth anything.

Regards

Santosh narayan
NAS410 Level-3
Bangalore
91-9008826825

 
 Reply 
 
Joe M.
NDT Inspector, Manager
USA, Joined May 2012, 5

Joe M.

NDT Inspector, Manager
USA,
Joined May 2012
5
02:54 Mar-02-2013
Re: NAS 410
In Reply to Jim Draper at 15:24 May-28-2010 (Opening).

We went through this a long time ago. We did additional classroom training to meet NAS-410 requirements and documented experiece hours gained while still certified to MIL-STD-410 as equivelent to NAS-410.

 
 Reply 
 
John Morris
John Morris
20:09 Jan-22-2015
Re: NAS 410
In Reply to Joe M. at 02:54 Mar-02-2013 .

A good QMS Quality Management System uses the latest revisons unless dictated by a customer on a specific project.

MIL STD 410 it is referenced on many old drawings and specifications if your using this your out of date and behind.

No grandfathering because it doesn't meet the requirements of NAS 410 Rev 3 or currently Rev 4.

SNT-TC-1a is a reference document it states that within the document NAS 410 has more specific shalls. Also NAS 410 states or did in NAS 410 Rev 3 that it replaces MIL-STD 410. Just as many ASTM specifications replace MIL-STD- such MIL-STD-1949 MT or MIL-STD 6866 PT.

Good Luck

 
 Reply 
 
SB
SB
15:50 Oct-19-2018
Re: NAS 410
In Reply to Vijaya raghavan at 06:35 Jun-04-2010 .

If a technician was certified to NAS410 in 1996 with 30 hours formal training in MT & PT (more than enough for the 1996 edition), would he or she be "grandfathered" and accepted to the latest NAS410 revision (32 hours MT & PT)?

 
 Reply 
 

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