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- since 1996 -
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Kjell Torgersen
Consultant,
Spain, Joined Mar 2011, 5

Kjell Torgersen

Consultant,
Spain,
Joined Mar 2011
5
22:14 Apr-02-2011
Differences between European and US NDT CERTIFICATES?

Can someone please tell me why the US NDT certificates are generally considered "not good enough" in the EU/North Sea?

    
 
 Reply 
 
Jon Wallis
NDT Inspector, -
Netherlands, Joined Feb 2010, 626

Jon Wallis

NDT Inspector, -
Netherlands,
Joined Feb 2010
626
08:38 Apr-03-2011
Re: Differences between European and US NDT CERTIFICATES?
In Reply to Kjell Torgersen at 22:14 Apr-02-2011 (Opening).

Whether ASNT certification is "good enough" or not is open to debate. I think the issue here is what is prescribed by the standards and requirements of the end client and they will, in Europe, normally be working according to EN norms. EN norms demand certification according to EN473 and do not accept "or equivalent".
A similar problem exists even within Europe. PCN is the British certification scheme which produces certification according to EN473. All countries in Europe have theie own national certification scheme however, potential employers in the UK often will not consider a level 2 person certified in Germany say, because the certificate is "not PCN" (typically British).
My EN473 certificates were obtained in The Netherlands and are accepted throughout Europe, more than once I have not been told that without "PCN" I will have trouble getting my certicates accepted for a UK employer.

    
 
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Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1268

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1268
09:07 Apr-03-2011
Re: Differences between European and US NDT CERTIFICATES?
In Reply to Kjell Torgersen at 22:14 Apr-02-2011 (Opening).

Kjell, Jon's experiences are what I had in mind when I wrote a description of the options
http://www.ndt.net/article/ndtnet/2009/ginzel4.pdf
In Europe (and Canada) the preference is for a 3rd party system. This has generally assured everyone that all is "above board" and no special arrangements are made. The second party options (American options where the company itself does the certification) does not have the same "transparency" of process.
Jon's comments about the imposition of the "PCN" scheme is disappointing to hear. Even in the UK I understood that PCN and CSWIP were considered equivalent and I understood from previous comments by Joe Buckley that discrimination based on country scheme is forbidden in Europe when the programme is conforming to EN473.

    
 
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Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
10:17 Apr-03-2011
Re: Differences between European and US NDT CERTIFICATES?
In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 09:07 Apr-03-2011 .

Kjell

Recently there was a question regarding whose evaluation carried the most weight - Level III or Level II, i.e. who has gone further within the same certification process.

Now the topic is downgrading someone according to which certification process they have been through.

It is all such a nonsense. Consider NAS 410, employer-based certification used for aircraft and aerospace inspections - contrast and compare with EN473 central certifications used widely in power generation and Oil & Gas. My view is that aerospace inspections are at least as critical as powergen and O & G, if not more so.

I think looking at the piece of paper without looking at the person the paper refers to is a BIG mistake!

PCN and CSWIP both state EN473 and ISO 9712 on their certificates and I have never had any challenges to either of them.

Kjell, with employer-certification there is the rider that the certifcate lapses on leaving the employ of the issuer, so the new employer is put off by the prospect of re-certifying the certificate holder. With central certification there is no such requirement and theoretically the certificate holder can start work immediately.

    
 
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hakeem1
Nigeria, Joined Sep 2011, 10

hakeem1

Nigeria,
Joined Sep 2011
10
16:35 Oct-26-2011
Re: Differences between European and US NDT CERTIFICATES?
In Reply to Nigel Armstrong at 10:17 Apr-03-2011 .

Nigel Armstrong,

From what you said, which ones are the general certifications and which are the employer based certifications.kindly make available to me pls.

Secondly, can you advise me:
I am a graduate of Physics(UNAAB, Nigeria) and want to explore NDT. But i am a bit confused on where to start, as a Physics graduate and where to run my training for qualification and certification. i have checked so many training facilities via internet in the USA but as you said i will only be awarded employer based certificate which might not be valuable on leaving the company or the USA. What do you suggest;where do you think i should get the kind of training that would b well practical oriented and hands-on plus sound theoretical knowledge to the students and then rewarded with a general certification and qualification. It could be in Africa-easier for me cos i'm in Nigeria, or USA or UK.
do i go institutes like i saw some in USA like Amarillo College etc or Argyll Ruane etc in Uk for training and then certification. Others i have checked are Birring, Ocean Corporation,ndtcs,Hellier,GE technologies,Lavender,TWI,ndt training and testing center, etc

Pls Nigel i need ur suggestion/advice and from other forum members too.
Your recommendation on choice if insttitutes are welcome too.

Thanks all

    
 
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Abdul
Student,
USA, Joined Dec 2009, 4

Abdul

Student,
USA,
Joined Dec 2009
4
22:56 Oct-26-2011
Re: Differences between European and US NDT CERTIFICATES?
In Reply to hakeem1 at 16:35 Oct-26-2011 .

omo unnab.
go to the NDT site and search using country profile.
I saw some NDT guys in Ibadan and Lagos, i think they are best to advice u.
Couple of them are level 3.

    
 
 Reply 
 
Oliviero
NDT Inspector,
Quality Control srl, Italy, Joined Oct 2008, 414

Oliviero

NDT Inspector,
Quality Control srl,
Italy,
Joined Oct 2008
414
23:17 Oct-26-2011
Re: Differences between European and US NDT CERTIFICATES?
In Reply to Kjell Torgersen at 22:14 Apr-02-2011 (Opening).

Kjell,

any certification scheme is not a law. It is only contractually required.
Since this, you could have requirements to obtain the third party certification (EN473, ISO9712) and for another contract you could have a requirement to obtain company certification (SNT-TC-1A, CP-189).
It is unbelievable that a third party certification EN473 obtained in one nation, it is not acceptable in another nation where EN473 is applicable to the contract.

    
 
 Reply 
 

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