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- since 1996 -
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raju
raju
13:02 Nov-03-2012
why people run qualification rather than quality

dear all,

i am seen last few year that why people rush for qualification rather that to understand the actual think.i am strongly believe that some time practically person know more than qualified person . why we always run behind qualification ??? are you agree??

 
 Reply 
 
steve
NDT Inspector, - Manager
Germany, Joined Apr 2010, 21

steve

NDT Inspector, - Manager
Germany,
Joined Apr 2010
21
16:25 Nov-03-2012
Re: why people run qualification rather than quality
In Reply to raju at 13:02 Nov-03-2012 (Opening).

Raju,
you are right some extend.. but to get a posting you need to have a qualification but in finally if your qualified but can't quantify or perform as per client requirement sure ur employ will try to fill the vacancy which you are having..... i agree with you .. now a day we can see 1 million ASNT Level II and at least a quarter a million Level III's with out knowing their job.

 
 Reply 
 
S V Swamy
Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex , India, Joined Feb 2001, 787

S V Swamy

Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex ,
India,
Joined Feb 2001
787
17:06 Nov-03-2012
Re: why people run qualification rather than quality
In Reply to raju at 13:02 Nov-03-2012 (Opening).

Dear Raju,

Qualification is a demonstration of your knowledge and experience strictly speaking. Sadly the whole thing has become a big business (glad to have kept out of it all these years and hope to stay away for the future too). A good interviewer will easily know whether the candidate has hands on experience or is a paper specialist.

By the way, I assure that depending on one's position in the organization, one may end up with a lot of theoretical knowledge and responsibility without doing much hands on work.

Regards

Swamy

 
 Reply 
 
Andrew Cunningham
NDT Inspector
Canada, Joined Jun 2008, 238

Andrew Cunningham

NDT Inspector
Canada,
Joined Jun 2008
238
17:27 Nov-03-2012
Re: why people run qualification rather than quality
In Reply to raju at 13:02 Nov-03-2012 (Opening).

It is just human nature to try and get the maximum with the minimum effort.
Repeating and say what is needed to move on and up.
As for the companies that require signatures’ with the appropriate qualifications at the lowest price, to sign off the reports.
Some companies find it profitable to have low quality inspectors with a low detection rate and higher profits, rather than quality inspectors, ensuring real quality products and smaller profits.
It bugs me more when I see the quality companies’ close and seeing scum rise to the top. But those how are rushing to the top, have mouths to feed also.

 
 Reply 
 
Stan
NDT Inspector,
Canada, Joined Jan 2009, 31

Stan

NDT Inspector,
Canada,
Joined Jan 2009
31
00:29 Nov-04-2012
Re: why people run qualification rather than quality
In Reply to Andrew Cunningham at 17:27 Nov-03-2012 .

I agree completely Andy. As long as Fabricators and Owners do not demand quality as well as qualifications, then they will get what they pay for, the cheapest inspection they can get. A proper inspection to the applicable codes takes time as well as the proper equipment and until clients are prepared to pay what it costs they will get inferior inspections from inferior technicians.

 
 Reply 
 
Oliviero
NDT Inspector,
Quality Control srl, Italy, Joined Oct 2008, 414

Oliviero

NDT Inspector,
Quality Control srl,
Italy,
Joined Oct 2008
414
21:47 Nov-07-2012
Re: why people run qualification rather than quality
In Reply to Stan at 00:29 Nov-04-2012 .

It is a timeless discussion. The employers see the "Certification" as the pass to sign certificates. Operators and Inspectors see the "Certification" as the pass to have a job.
No one worries itself to understand what means "Certification".
The Certification should be once a demonstration of knowledge and experience (as Mr. Swamy remembered), but not the pass to do any job.
The employers should not stop their verification only looking a certificate.

 
 Reply 
 
John Brunk
Engineering, NDT Level III
Self employed, part-time, USA, Joined Oct 1999, 161

John Brunk

Engineering, NDT Level III
Self employed, part-time,
USA,
Joined Oct 1999
161
22:15 Nov-07-2012
Re: why people run qualification rather than quality
In Reply to Oliviero at 21:47 Nov-07-2012 .

I just came home from visiting a construction site to audit an inspector's work doing ultrasonic weld testing per AWS D1.1. This was a periodic check requested by the inspector's manager. There was no reason to doubt his work, some people just like to take extra measures to be sure work is done properly. This inspector's certification document specifically states that he is qualified to perform ultrasonic inspections per AWS D1.1. His employer would not ask him to do any other type of UT job. Fortunately, nearly all of the companies I have worked with over the years are like this. Unfortunately, a very few are not.

 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
12:24 Nov-08-2012
Re: why people run qualification rather than quality
In Reply to Andrew Cunningham at 17:27 Nov-03-2012 .

Andy C: "It is just human nature to try and get the maximum with the minimum effort. "

And makes a lot more sense (scientific even) than trying to get the minimum from maximum effort!

I am heavily certificated and currently I am office-based with not even a spray can of penetrant in site. The only metal work around is the building frame!

But "raju" why is your theoretical savant uncertified. Presumably s/he is not performing routine inspections. Do you maintain the same for airline pilots - ie you would feel happier sat in an aircraft piloted by somebody who has ad hoc persuaded "someone" of his/her capabilities and then bypassed all routines. You fly that airline, I'll stick to the traditional CAA-licensed pilots. If you are routinely performing an action then you conform to the requirements of that routine. We live in a systems-world and people have to show they meet standards. Even artists go to art school and take exams.

Raju, tell us your real angle or am I kidding myself!

 
 Reply 
 
raju
NDT Inspector,
India, Joined Nov 2012, 6

raju

NDT Inspector,
India,
Joined Nov 2012
6
12:46 Nov-08-2012
Re: why people run qualification rather than quality
In Reply to Nigel Armstrong at 12:24 Nov-08-2012 .

Sir, i am not against the qualification or theory . because all NDT is based on Physics but all time only theory not work or only qualification not work.

so person who got qualification , they have good practically experience.

can you agree or not ?

 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
15:04 Nov-08-2012
Re: why people run qualification rather than quality
In Reply to raju at 12:46 Nov-08-2012 .

"but all time only theory not work or only qualification not work."

Raju, despite being set-up and run by a German national, I assume for reasons of internationalism this is an Englisg-language forum. I admit that this is to my advantage as I would struggle to discuss matters in French or German and I would not have the slightest hope in Gujarati.

Please do not hurry to post, compose and re-read to see if what you write is comprehensible. Ask an English-fluent friend to correct and make intelligible your post as it conveys the essential - your ideas, experience and knowledge. Please dont sell yourself short by rushing to post an unintelligible reply.

"so person who got qualification , they have good practically experience." Depends on their experience! Maybe yes, maybe no. Why? What is your point?

 
 Reply 
 
Frank Lund
R & D,
United Kingdom, Joined Apr 2005, 219

Frank Lund

R & D,
United Kingdom,
Joined Apr 2005
219
20:13 Nov-08-2012
Re: why people run qualification rather than quality
In Reply to raju at 13:02 Nov-03-2012 (Opening).

You can attache a copy of somebody's certificate to a report and show that you have done your job in using a "qualified" person, whereas you can't attache copy of their knowledge and skill to cover your backside and show that you have chosen a suitably competent person.

 
 Reply 
 

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