where expertise comes together - since 1996 -

The Largest Open Access Portal of Nondestructive Testing (NDT)

Conference Proceedings, Articles, News, Exhibition, Forum, Network and more

where expertise comes together
- since 1996 -

Materials Research Institute
Consulting to the NDT industry.
15889 views
Career Discussions
Rob
NDT Inspector,
United Kingdom, Joined Feb 2011, 8

Rob

NDT Inspector,
United Kingdom,
Joined Feb 2011
8
23:52 Jan-05-2013
NDT in Canada

I arrived in Canada in February 2012, with PCN level 2 in MT, PT and UT all welds. I had aspirations to get at least one ticket in CGSB within about 6 weeks with limited funds but enough to see me through. Having had experience of the BINDT PCN system I cannot believe how bureaucratic the Canadian system is. I have to sit a training providers exam to prove my knowledge, fair enough but there is no skills test. I then write an NRCan exam but I don’t have to sit all the papers as they recognise my valid PCN certification, so why do I have to waste time and money on a training provider’s exam in the first place?
Trying to contact NRCan is a lottery, and after leaving an email or voice mail I rarely get a reply. I have had incorrect test papers sent out, conflicting advice and just general delays. I am now 10 months down the road and getting nowhere.
This may sound like I am bitter about my experience and I am, but I am by no means an isolated case. Numerous NDT technicians I have talked to going through Canada have had similar problems. I don't want to use the word 'incompetent' as it sounds too strong but they are not far off. I do wonder how Canada successfully operates an NDT system.
I had been advised that this wouldn't be easy and boy how right they are. I have now reached the point where I just need to sit the practical aspect of the UT level 2, but have run out of funds. If I had the confidence that, if I passed the exam I would have my ticket within a couple of weeks then I would go for it but I know of some people waiting months! I know living in the Maritimes of Canada doesn’t help and if I lived on the doorstep of a NDT trainer it would probably be a bit easier. Not to have a practical test centre within 1800kms really isn’t helpful.
I am now in aircraft maintenance unable to use my NDT experience and skills and it upsets me, but I shall move onwards and upwards. To those going for certification in Canada.......good luck to you!

1    
 
 Reply 
 
Dent
Consultant, NDE Manager NDELevel III/3
NDT Consultant, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 248

Dent

Consultant, NDE Manager NDELevel III/3
NDT Consultant,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
248
02:48 Jan-06-2013
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rob at 23:52 Jan-05-2013 (Opening).

It is a sad story. Our system used to be much better than this. Since the move from Ottawa to Hamilton things have really slipped.
I suggest you post this story on the CINDE.CA discussion board. Maybe the right people will see it and be forced to make the system better.

    
 
 Reply 
 
Rolf Diederichs
Director,
NDT.net, Germany, Joined Nov 1998, 608

Rolf Diederichs

Director,
NDT.net,
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
608
00:16 Jan-07-2013
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rob at 23:52 Jan-05-2013 (Opening).

Who can improve this situation? CINDE?
We have more than 200 Canadian members in this forum and some are from CINDE staff. It would be interesting to hear CINDE's opinion here.

    
 
 Reply 
 
Michel Couture
NDT Inspector,
consultant, Canada, Joined Sep 2006, 845

Michel Couture

NDT Inspector,
consultant,
Canada,
Joined Sep 2006
845
00:17 Jan-07-2013
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Dent at 02:48 Jan-06-2013 .

Rob,

Welcome to Canada and thanks our Prime Minister and his cut backs on everything except taxes.

    
 
 Reply 
 
James Scalf
NDT Inspector,
Global Integrity, Canada, Joined Oct 2012, 273

James Scalf

NDT Inspector,
Global Integrity,
Canada,
Joined Oct 2012
273
13:09 Jan-07-2013
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rob at 23:52 Jan-05-2013 (Opening).

Rob,
I feel your pain. Ever since the move of CGSB from Ottawa to Hamilton, to that nice new building they have to pay for, dealing with CGSB has become a bit of a pain for everyone. Not only in respect to getting initial certifications done. Hopefully these pains will pass with time. I know part of the problem for them is that they have had a large turnover in staff since they moved, in their invigilation/ examiner section, and are trying to bring a lot of new people up to speed.
Being out in the Maritimes and having Aircraft related skill sets have you tried applying to IMP Group out at the Halifax International Airport? I know they have an NDT Shop out there and that they support NDT Training. Another possible avenue if you are in the Halifax area is the Naval Dockyards they also have NDT technicians employed there and support training for new CGSB candidates. There are also some industrial inspection companies that might be willing to bring you on to get you your tickets. If you would like some possible leads let me know. Cheers and good luck to you...

    
 
 Reply 
 
Joe Buckley
Consultant, ASNT L-III, Honorary Secretary of BINDT
Level X NDT, BINDT, United Kingdom, Joined Oct 1999, 522

Joe Buckley

Consultant, ASNT L-III, Honorary Secretary of BINDT
Level X NDT, BINDT,
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 1999
522
14:51 Jan-07-2013
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rob at 23:52 Jan-05-2013 (Opening).

Rob,

Are your PCN certs not being accepted in Canada? I was under the impression that these should be OK there, the idea is meant to be that 473/ 9712 compliant certifications are generally accepted as equivalent. Obviously not the whole story.

Sounds a mess, hope you get it sorted out soon.
Joe


    
 
 Reply 
 
Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1268

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1268
16:16 Jan-07-2013
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rolf Diederichs at 00:16 Jan-07-2013 .

Rolf, this is a good question. Unlike other countries, Canada opted to organise its certification programme through a government agency. Dent can correct me if I am wrong, but I think this was to ensure that no private company or organisation could have undue sway in the process. National societies are generally nothing more than clubs made of of members of the NDT community. It could be possible for such clubs to influence the rules of the certification programme to the advantage of certain companies within the NDT community. It would be easy to imagine how a society member running a company might like to arrange the rules in their company's favour. This is available in the "latitude" identified in the Introduction of ISO-9712. By placing the process outside of private industry, I think Canada was attempting to prevent corporate bias. Therefore, CINDE itself could not be the entity for change since it is not independent of the members' interests and it has corporate interests of its own.
Joe Buckley's point has been one I have tried to promote here in Canada. CWSIP and and others issue ISO-9712 compliant certificates. These should NOT be considered inferior to any ISO-9712 certification issued by NRCan on behalf of CGSB. Discussions are seen in the CINDE Journal about possible multi-lateral recognition agreements. But other than possible language issues, this discussion should be moot...the skills in NDT will have been demonstrated if the certificate holder has a valid ISO-9712 certificate.
More relevant will be the fact that certification is not an authorisation to work. There is an obligation on the employer to ensure that the employee is capable (as well as certified).

1    
 
 Reply 
 
James Scalf
NDT Inspector,
Global Integrity, Canada, Joined Oct 2012, 273

James Scalf

NDT Inspector,
Global Integrity,
Canada,
Joined Oct 2012
273
19:01 Jan-07-2013
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 16:16 Jan-07-2013 .

Ed,
I liked your response in reference to the ISO Standards. Unfortunately here in Canada, private companies are circumventing the ISO-9712 by moving from CGSB to in house certifications such as NAS-410 (Naval Air Standard). These programs are supposed to be equivalent in standard and quality to that of CGSB however having recently worked for a private company which employed a number (almost 90% of the workforce on site for the company in question) of these so called in house trained and qualified technicians I can tell you for certain that their abilities and technological knowledge was sorely lacking. It was so bad that in many cases I went back out and rechecked a number of the inspections they had performed to ensure nothing critical was missed.

I understand why companies are leaning towards this sort of certification system. One of the main reasons is the lack of qualified CGSB certified Technicians available in the civilian industry, which is only going to get worse as the current workforce ages. Even in the RCAF we are feeling this pain as the attrition rate in the CF is such that 5 years ago we had 34 technicians with all 5 CGSB level 2 certifications and now we only have 9 across the CF and that number is going to decrease again this year. Another reason that private companies are looking at alternatives to CGSB is the cost factor and the fact that in many cases such as the aerospace industry not all of the technicians are required to hold the certifications. For example a technician with his AME license can have a number of trainees under him who do the actual work and he is only required to check it at critical juctures (granted for the NDT trade, I believe, they are all critical juctures). I know that Bombardier and Air Canada use in house "Qualified" NDT technicians to perform a large part of their inspections which is allowed under the Technical Airworthiness Manual from Transport Canada as long as they have a formal in house documented training program. Even the CF makes a limitted use of what we term "Operators" primarily in locations where the infrequency of the inspection requirement would make having a full time NDT Tech a waste of resources. That being said however when the aircraft returns to its homebase the inspection is usually rechecked by a Certified inspector.

Unfortunately with the issues companies and people are having with attaining their CGSB certifications and the costs associated with them as well as the fact that private companies can now have in house trained and qualified NDT operators (thus saving them from having to pay a certidfied technicians the higher rate) I only see this problem getting worse in the future as the workforce ages and the demand for inspections goes up...

1    
 
 Reply 
 
Csaba Hollo
,
Retired, Canada, Joined Feb 2010, 301

Csaba Hollo

,
Retired,
Canada,
Joined Feb 2010
301
21:50 Jan-07-2013
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rob at 23:52 Jan-05-2013 (Opening).

Everyone responding here has touched on varying problems that NRCAN (NDT) is having. My sense of this is that they are in a state of flux, and require some leadership to bring them into properly functioning certification board.

Some years ago, the CANMET certification board was looking at subset certifications in UT such as phased array, TOFD, etc., but has to date, not been able to bring these to the examination/certification stage.

Many NDT service companies, have looked to the CSWIP/PCN schemes in order to get some documentable certification for their technical staff in the absence of anything from the CAN/CGSB scheme.

I suspect that the relative inability of the current certifying body to respond to change has cause the certification of Exposure Device Operators to be transferred to the CSA. These are trying times for our certifying body. I know that almost no one is happy with their performance, and believe that there is not good value for money.

I don't know what the answer is, but I suspect tough sledding ahead, and am hoping that it all sorts itself out in the near term.

1    
 
 Reply 
 
Rob
NDT Inspector,
United Kingdom, Joined Feb 2011, 8

Rob

NDT Inspector,
United Kingdom,
Joined Feb 2011
8
23:35 Jan-07-2013
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rob at 23:52 Jan-05-2013 (Opening).

Thank you to all for responding, I was quite apprehensive about posting in the first place but your positive (to me) responses are good to hear.
To answer Joe, my PCN’s are recognised but only as an indication of training. There is no reciprocal agreement (I think it is Korea who have the only reciprocal agreement). It basically means that I don’t have to sit through a course and I can skip one exam (General paper if I remember correctly).
James: I currently work for IMP but as I have a lot of structural experience they want me in that role. I have enquired but currently they don’t have any vacancies and have the required experience (for the time being). Again the issue is if they want to employ an NDT technician CGSB certs are required unless it is a training position. I have talked to other employers and they are interested in my experience but the stopper is certification and there doesn’t seem to be a desire to invest. I worked out to get my UT level 2 would cost little more than a months wage but the answer seems to be along the lines of ‘when you get certification give us a call’. I don’t know if I lived in Alberta whether the situation would be different but to me the certification set up doesn’t lend itself to be employer friendly.
I find it frustrating that with my PCN's I could get work in the UK. Yet despite using the same equipment, same standards and same techniques I don’t get a look in. I loved doing NDT and am desperate to get back into it. I can understand the need for Canada (or any other country) to keep track of their technicians and keep up with practices and standards but there must be a better way.

1    
 
 Reply 
 
Dent
Consultant, NDE Manager NDELevel III/3
NDT Consultant, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 248

Dent

Consultant, NDE Manager NDELevel III/3
NDT Consultant,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
248
00:07 Jan-08-2013
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rob at 23:35 Jan-07-2013 .

Well said Rob. You have a right to be bitter but it is not showing in your messages. If you e mail me off line with the names of the people you have been dealing with at NRCan I may be able to get you to the right people.
I suggest that maybe a letter to the editor of the CINDE Journal stating your case as you have done here may get some action.



    
 
 Reply 
 
Rob
NDT Inspector,
United Kingdom, Joined Feb 2011, 8

Rob

NDT Inspector,
United Kingdom,
Joined Feb 2011
8
01:55 Jan-09-2013
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Dent at 00:07 Jan-08-2013 .

Hi Dent
Thanks for your offer, but the issue is no longer talking to the right people. Even talking to the manager/director wouldn't assist me in my current fix. I shall approach CINDE with regards to your suggestion. I am still wary about alienating myself in the industry so will see what they say. Thanks to everyone for your input it is very much appreciated

    
 
 Reply 
 
eddy
NDT Inspector,
Canada, Joined Jan 2014, 24

eddy

NDT Inspector,
Canada,
Joined Jan 2014
24
23:00 Jan-23-2014
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rob at 01:55 Jan-09-2013 .

like they said welcome to Canada......
Canada wont consider any other certs as equivalent and I agree,
I have seen too many so called NDT inspectors who have no idea what they are doing.
Dont get me wrong Im not saying you dont know what your doing or that im better then others
But its simple no one will higher you if you dont have the CGSB,
companies with trying to have in house NDT people wont work in the long run
they wont have the experience as a CGSB level ll and the moment they leave the company they no longer have the license similar to,

NRCan never pickes up the phone they have lost my letters in the mail and never respond to emails
I spoke with the manager too about another topic funny thing is he said there is nothing he can do there is so many grey areas with things that it made me loose faith in NRCan.

1    
 
 Reply 
 
Balwinder Singh
Other,
India, Joined Nov 2011, 16

Balwinder Singh

Other,
India,
Joined Nov 2011
16
08:31 Jan-24-2014
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rob at 01:55 Jan-09-2013 .

Dear Rob,

I am also qualified L-III as per ASNT & 3.1 as per CSWIP and approached to NRCAN for their certification system. They respond quickly and explained well. I am also very much interested in CGSB/NRCAN and CWB qualification.

As I think it could be individual experience every has right to share his/her problem and its only the way that system could be improve. Thanks for the sharing.

But I am surprised that why there is no any Central system to get qualified in NDT?Really now days its going too costly and also not easy to maintain?Many peoples are not coming in this field due to higher cost involve.

    
 
 Reply 
 
Daniel Keating
Daniel Keating
20:55 Mar-06-2014
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to eddy at 23:00 Jan-23-2014 .

Eddy

Thats not accurate....i and many others from Ireland & the Uk have come over here at the request of Canadian companies and all our certs are PCN....Mainly most of us are asked over on a regular basis as they cant find any CGSB fully qualified LII techs especially with Eddy Current. Thats been my experience anyway in the last year. In addition most of the Canadian CGSB guys that i have worked with do not like the certification system here, takes too long and too much paper work. All for extra govrnmental profit.

    
 
 Reply 
 
Sri Krishna
Sri Krishna
17:52 May-06-2014
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rob at 23:52 Jan-05-2013 (Opening).

Thank you Mr. Rob,

actually i am also interested and settle in canada, I am ASNT NDT level III and CSWIP 3.1 Welding Inspector. So what is the chance that i Can use my certifications or please suggest me (if you can) what i certifications i need to clear. Of course i am not PCN like you. but still interested to work in Canada.

you can give me your valuable suggestion to my mail ID: benergy84@gmail.com

thank you. (so that i can decide what to do)

    
 
 Reply 
 
Andy
Andy
14:53 Jun-16-2014
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Daniel Keating at 20:55 Mar-06-2014 .

Daniel

Do you know if there is sponsorship options for UK guys with PCN certs in Canada or are you guys just going on a contract basis?

Looking for a perm move over there, It either works out with the NDT certs or might be easier gaining sponsorship being a L3.

    
 
 Reply 
 
Daniel Keating
NDT Inspector, Spectrol Energy Services, Hibernia Platform, Canada.
Ireland, Joined Jun 2014, 6

Daniel Keating

NDT Inspector, Spectrol Energy Services, Hibernia Platform, Canada.
Ireland,
Joined Jun 2014
6
16:32 Jun-16-2014
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Andy at 14:53 Jun-16-2014 .

Andy,

I am actually a full time employee with the company i work for, but i still do rotation its just worked out this way, i go home to Ireland at the end of each hitch. There are a few contract guys with us from the UK, the company i work for is always looking for someone like yourself thats willing to relocate to here. It may be worth sending a CV, as for other companies in the area im not sure what there policy is.

Feel free to PM me and questions you may have.

Cheers

    
 
 Reply 
 
Thomas Carter
Thomas Carter
12:29 Oct-14-2014
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rob at 23:52 Jan-05-2013 (Opening).

That’s sad! Sure enough the Canadian Govt. has brought about such harsh rules and you have no choice but abide by them. Being a foreigner, I would like to share some of my own experience here. I’ve been a Canadian immigrant from 2 years and had to therefore suffer some hardships similar to yours. I don’t wanna dishearten you. So I’m not going to share my bitter experiences. Instead, the one good thing that helped me out of this was a Welder red seal course from Mississauga.

    
 
 Reply 
 
lokesh kumar.g
lokesh kumar.g
09:51 Dec-17-2014
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Rob at 23:52 Jan-05-2013 (Opening).

I am engineering graduate with 3.5 years exp in fabrication (production planning &control field).now i am looking job in Canada, what kind of NDT of courses should i do for getting job?
please give me details.

    
 
 Reply 
 
Babu Ram Sharma
NDT Inspector, Welding Inspector CSWIP 3.1, Radiation Safety Officer (RSO)
RGF NDT & Inspection Division, Saudi Arabia, Joined Jan 2014, 9

Babu Ram Sharma

NDT Inspector, Welding Inspector CSWIP 3.1, Radiation Safety Officer (RSO)
RGF NDT & Inspection Division,
Saudi Arabia,
Joined Jan 2014
9
21:43 Jul-08-2015
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Dent at 02:48 Jan-06-2013 .

Dear Mr. Dent,

I would like to introduce myself as CSWIP 3.1 Welding Inspector, working in Saudi Arabia since 2010. I want to upgrade myself and use my skills and knowledge by doing some Canadian equivalent CWB or NCARN or CNDT Examinations. Kindly suggest me for those examinations. I need visa to enter Canada, for such case how can fulfill my dreams? Awaiting for your kind feedback.

Regards Babu.

    
 
 Reply 
 
SURIN CHAMIDU
SURIN CHAMIDU
15:45 Jan-12-2017
Re: NDT in Canada
In Reply to Babu Ram Sharma at 21:43 Jul-08-2015 .

Almost all the posts regarding canadian CGSB certification is true, i do not wish to talk about each and every sector but when it comes to aviation it sucks. First of all i hold a BSc in NDT and A PCN L2 in ET,UT,RT,MT.PT & PCN L3 in PT, Held EN4179 for all five methods and currently holds NAS410 L2&3 for 4 methods except RT. Contacting NRCAN is like dying, it only happens once and you never know when. They never wanted to accept my PCN's but was very interested to charge money for all my requests on time, upto now i have spent about 5000 CAD just to get an answer from those responsible fellows that i need to do CINDE end of course exam, Maths EMC, Practicals and Written tests for all five methods. Later i'm sure they will say i need to do classroom training as well.
I wonder why they charged so much money to tell that stupid answer because to me they never reviewed my certification or qualification, i was working for the past 11 years of NDT with Boeing & Airbus aircrafts and has a sound experince with me. But i need to do the CGSB all over again thanks to the NRCAN personnel who reviewed my qualification.
I wish to spend another 10000 CAD as i'm a rich fellow who sits at home doing nothing. Good Luck to all CGSB candidates in Aerospace sector.

    
 
 Reply 
 

Product Spotlight

Aerospace Systems - Automated Ultrasonic Inspection

USL are specialists in the design and manufacture of turnkey ultrasonic inspection systems for aer
...
ospace applications. From monolithic composites to complex honeycomb structures. This video shows just a few examples of what is possible, find out more at: www.ultrasonic-sciences.co.uk
>

NDT.net launches mobile-friendly design

NDT.net has revamped its website providing a mobile-friendly design.The front page received a comp
...
letely new design and all other sections are now reacting responsively on mobile devices. This has been a major step to make our website more user- friendly.
>

EKOSCAN Phased Array

In order to always fit your needs, EKOSCAN can manufacture any type of UT transducer, either convent
...
ional or Phased Array. As an ISO 9001: 2015 certified company, EKOSCAN is extremely careful as far a material selection and manufacturing processes are concerned. Our probes guarantee our customers the benefits of latest innovations regarding piezo-composite, backing, impedance adaptation layer, etc. Specific probes for hostile environment: high temperature, high pressure, corrosive environment,etc. Specific probes designed to fit your specific application: optimization of every parameter to guarantee you the best detection.
>

PROlineTOP Plug & Play Ultrasonic inspection device

As Plug & Play solution it units all control and operation elements in a small housing and therefo
...
re replaces the typical control cabinet...
>

Share...
We use technical and analytics cookies to ensure that we will give you the best experience of our website - More Info
Accept
top
this is debug window