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Technical Discussions
Lanh Huyet
NDT Inspector,
Vietnam, Joined Jun 2013, 25

Lanh Huyet

NDT Inspector,
Vietnam,
Joined Jun 2013
25
11:31 Feb-24-2014
what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied

Hi everybody,
I'm learning about NDT and I have a question: What is the minimum OD of pipe that we could apply UT?
Your answer will be appreciated.

 
 Reply 
 
wieslaw bicz
Engineering,
PBP Optel sp. z o.o., Poland, Joined Feb 2009, 268

wieslaw bicz

Engineering,
PBP Optel sp. z o.o.,
Poland,
Joined Feb 2009
268
13:41 Feb-24-2014
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to Lanh Huyet at 11:31 Feb-24-2014 (Opening).

From technical point of view there is practically no limit for OD of pipe, that can be investigated with UT. But only if this is applied in an automatic device. Manual testing could be difficult with very small diameter pipes.

If focused wave will be used, the limit is only the complication of the device and the time needed for testing.

 
 Reply 
 
Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1286

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1286
14:24 Feb-24-2014
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to Lanh Huyet at 11:31 Feb-24-2014 (Opening).

In addition to Wieslaw's reply I would also add that there may be a further practical limit for whether you are planning to test the pipe (as in volumetric inspections at a pipe mill) or if you are asking about weld inspections where butt welds are joining lengths of pipe.

 
 Reply 
 
lanh huyet
NDT Inspector,
Vietnam, Joined Jun 2013, 25

lanh huyet

NDT Inspector,
Vietnam,
Joined Jun 2013
25
18:21 Feb-24-2014
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 14:24 Feb-24-2014 .

What i want to mention is the ínspection of buttweld on pipe.i known that it depend on the size and shape of probe To be used.but for example:shoe of probe is flat and 8x9 in area, 60 degree,4 Mhz.does has any function to be used to determine the minimum OD of piwe?

 
 Reply 
 
Emil
NDT Inspector, NDT Level 3 Client Inspector
AMIQS Automated and Manual Inspection and Quality Services, Poland, Joined Oct 2007, 4

Emil

NDT Inspector, NDT Level 3 Client Inspector
AMIQS Automated and Manual Inspection and Quality Services,
Poland,
Joined Oct 2007
4
19:17 Feb-24-2014
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to lanh huyet at 18:21 Feb-24-2014 .

If you working in accordance with ISO standards (ISO 17640) there is requirements for adaption of probes to curved scanning surfaces af follows:
The gap between the test surface and bottom of the probe shoe shall not be greater than 0,5 mm. For cylindrical or spherical surfaces this requirement will normally be met when the following equation is fulfilled:

g=a to the power of 2/D

where:
g-gap between the test surface and bottom of the probe shoe,
a-is the dimension of the probe shoe in the direction of testing (in mm),
D-is the diameter of the tested object (in mm).

If this requirement cannot be met the probe shoe shall be adapted to the surface and the sensitivity and range shall be set accordingly.


You have to remember that standard ISO 17640 is applicable for the material of wall thickness 8mm and thicker.

 
 Reply 
 
Lanh Huyet
NDT Inspector,
Vietnam, Joined Jun 2013, 25

Lanh Huyet

NDT Inspector,
Vietnam,
Joined Jun 2013
25
02:25 Feb-25-2014
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to Emil at 19:17 Feb-24-2014 .

Emil, Your answer is very useful.Even though I have read it but I didn't pay highly attention on it. However, I need an explanation about this line "a-is the dimension of the probe shoe in the direction of testing (in mm)".What is the dimension mentioned above? for instance, my probe shoe has 15mm in length which perpendicular to the axis of weld to be tested and 10mm in width.Then, a= 15mm ?

 
 Reply 
 
Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1286

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1286
14:00 Feb-25-2014
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to Lanh Huyet at 02:25 Feb-25-2014 .

Lanh, if you are using contact testing and following the rules of ISO 17640, you might like to look at a utility software (free) that calculates the wedge-gap at the website http://www.eclipsescientific.com/Software/ESWedgeGap/info.html
This allows you to enter the dimensions of the wedge and cylinder and visualise the gap.

 
 Reply 
 
Emil
NDT Inspector, NDT Level 3 Client Inspector
AMIQS Automated and Manual Inspection and Quality Services, Poland, Joined Oct 2007, 4

Emil

NDT Inspector, NDT Level 3 Client Inspector
AMIQS Automated and Manual Inspection and Quality Services,
Poland,
Joined Oct 2007
4
15:57 Feb-25-2014
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 14:00 Feb-25-2014 .

Lanh, it should be dimension perpendicular to the axis of the pipe. In your case if you inspect the girth weld a=10mm, if you inspect the long seam then your a=15mm.

 
 Reply 
 
lanh huyet
NDT Inspector,
Vietnam, Joined Jun 2013, 25

lanh huyet

NDT Inspector,
Vietnam,
Joined Jun 2013
25
17:47 Feb-25-2014
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to Emil at 15:57 Feb-25-2014 .

Thanks EMil and everybody.the problem is solved.

 
 Reply 
 
A.S
A.S
15:05 Jan-08-2015
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 14:00 Feb-25-2014 .

Hi!

When using the software Ed posted i don't get the same result as when using the equation in SS-EN 17640 (g = a² / D )

For example. My wedge is 14mm in dim. And i want to test a 4" pipe
(girth weld)

14² / 114,3 = 1,7 ----> Not accepted

Putting the same results in the software i get g = 0,427 -----> Accepted

Any ideas what i might be doing wrong?

/Thanks

 
 Reply 
 
Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1286

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1286
15:56 Jan-08-2015
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to A.S at 15:05 Jan-08-2015 .

A.S.; I suspect the ISO 17640 document is just providing an approximation as a guideline. I do not have SS-EN 17640. However, wording in the old EN 1714 stated "For cylindrical or spherical surfaces this requirement will normally be met when the following equation is fulfilled: D is greater than or equal to 15 times "a"
where 'D' is the diameter of component and 'a' the dimension of the probe.
Can you provide the exact wording in SS-EN 17640?

 
 Reply 
 
Udo Schlengermann
Consultant, -
Standards Consulting, Germany, Joined Nov 1998, 181

Udo Schlengermann

Consultant, -
Standards Consulting,
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
181
16:58 Jan-08-2015
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 15:56 Jan-08-2015 .

Dear Ed, dear A.S.,

SS EN 17640 simply means the Swedish translation of EN ISO 17640.
ISO 17640:2010, Non-destructive testing of welds — Ultrasonic testing — Techniques, testing levels, and assessment).

The questioned equation (1) in EN ISO 17640:2010 is not printed correctly, it has to be dived by 4 additionally.
The equation will be corrected at the next revision of the standard.

The correct equation is
g ≈ (a/2)(a/2) /D = (a)(a)/ 4D.

The given example: Dimension of probe 14 mm and diameter of pipe 4" = 101.6 mm (not 114.3 mm)
then results in g = 196 mm/ 406.4 mm = 0.482.
This is the correct result.

With best regards

 
 Reply 
 
Hao Wu
China, Joined May 2014, 6

Hao Wu

China,
Joined May 2014
6
06:44 Jan-09-2015
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to Udo Schlengermann at 16:58 Jan-08-2015 .

zoom image

1

Hi, I got a precise value throug geometric analysis.
where:
g-gap between the test surface and bottom of the probe shoe,
a-is the dimension of the probe shoe in the direction of testing (in mm),
D-is the diameter of the tested object (in mm).

positive sign is valuable when D>a; negative sign is valuable when a>D
 
 Reply 
 
Hao Wu
China, Joined May 2014, 6

Hao Wu

China,
Joined May 2014
6
07:00 Jan-09-2015
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to Hao Wu at 06:44 Jan-09-2015 .

I am sorry that I made a mistake . The symbol should be

g-gap between the test surface and bottom of the probe shoe,

a-wedge with;

d-dimension of the probe shoe in the direction of testing (in mm),

D-diameter of the tested object (in mm).

d-diameter of the wedge

 
 Reply 
 
A.S
A.S
10:13 Jan-09-2015
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to Udo Schlengermann at 16:58 Jan-08-2015 .

Udo

Thank you for that information. I now get the same result when i use the (new) equation in 17640 as when using the software ESWedgeGap.

I find it weird that the publiser of 17640 here in sweden have not given out information on this. Or maybe they have, and i just missed it. I'm gonna Email the publisher and ask.

Anyway, thanks for info!

PS. Udo we rarely use DN when we talk pipe measures here, so maybe i should just have written 114,3mm instead of 4" :)

 
 Reply 
 
A.S
A.S
13:32 Jan-23-2015
Re: what is the minimum OD of pipe that UT could be applied
In Reply to A.S at 10:13 Jan-09-2015 .

Hi again

I emailed SIS (swedish standards institute) regard the equation in EN 17640 and that it should be divided by 4 like Udo said, but i got the answer they they didn't know anything about this and that the equation been like this since EN 1714.

 
 Reply 
 

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