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Teletest Focus+ was the first system to use long-range guided wave ultrasonic testing to detect corrosion in pipelines.
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Career Discussions
Mohamed Karim Ramy
Egypt, Joined Mar 2012, 12

Mohamed Karim Ramy

Egypt,
Joined Mar 2012
12
09:18 Sep-02-2014
PCN In-House Certification

if we have PCN Level III person in company how can we make our company accredited agency by BINDT for Qualifying our technicians for PCN level 1 and level 2 as we are EPC company Willing to change NDT service from Outsourcing system to In-House system.

 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
10:33 Sep-02-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Mohamed Karim Ramy at 09:18 Sep-02-2014 (Opening).

Hello Mohamed and welcome to the forum

PCN follows ISO 9712 which is for central certification, NOT in-house.

ISO 9712 Level 3's (PCN or otherwise) are not entitled to issue Level 1 and Level 2 qualifications.

You can contact PCN c/o BINDT (see BINDT.org website) in the UK to ask them which is your in-country accredited certification agency, if there is one. Is there not an NDT institute in Egypt?

 
 Reply 
 
Mohamed Karim Ramy
Egypt, Joined Mar 2012, 12

Mohamed Karim Ramy

Egypt,
Joined Mar 2012
12
14:59 Sep-02-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Nigel Armstrong at 10:33 Sep-02-2014 .

Thank you sir for participating ,I am currently working NDT Level III in Qatar in EPC company, I have ASNT NDT level III in MT,PT,UT,VT,RT but some clients requires technicians to hold PCN level II certificates that's why my company was thinking to qualify me for PCN level III, but the problem that my company will not be able to qualify their technicians to PCN level II as it can't be AQB. so there is any solution for that, and if qualification is no applicable for in-house what about to be ATO (authorized training organization)and send our people for exam directly is that possible or NOT?

Regards
Mohamed Karim

 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
17:46 Sep-02-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Mohamed Karim Ramy at 14:59 Sep-02-2014 .

Follow the link to find countries operating ISO 9712 compliant certification schemes. None in Arabic countries, unfortunately. There may be some travelling cerification programs, try contacting some of the bodies in the attached document. Qatar is a big use of NDT services so there must be a market for ISO 9712 compliant certificates.

 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
17:50 Sep-02-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Nigel Armstrong at 17:46 Sep-02-2014 .

Forgot to add the link

http://www.icndt.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Download.aspx?Command=Core_Download&EntryId=14312&language=en-GB&PortalId=0&TabId=2446

 
 Reply 
 
Mohamed Karim Ramy
Egypt, Joined Mar 2012, 12

Mohamed Karim Ramy

Egypt,
Joined Mar 2012
12
08:21 Sep-03-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Nigel Armstrong at 17:50 Sep-02-2014 .

thank you all for kind participating, I have already contacted with BINT and they guided me , but, the problem I have to travel Singapore , India or England and stay for minimum 16 days to take level III at three method and if I wanted to be PCN RT level 3 I have to take additional safety radiation training and that may extends the period for one month which is too difficult due to pressure of work and high cost. I am willing to take PCN level III in MT,PT and UT in near future, I will be exempted from part A and C in basic and part D in method but I have to take PCN level II practical exam , I need your help in this issue because it will cost me too much and "Failure is not an option" like ASNT says :)

 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
10:38 Sep-03-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
Hello Mohamed

As your original enquiry was whether or not a PCN Level 3 may qualify personnel to PCN Level 1 or 2 and the answer was negative, is there any other reason for you to spend significant time, effort and money on pursuing PCN Level 3 status?
 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
11:24 Sep-03-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Nigel Armstrong at 10:38 Sep-03-2014 .

Mohamed

I should have added that the good news is that a PCN Level 3 is unnecessary for your colleagues to gain PCN Level 1 and Level 2 certification. I applaud your hard work in discovering where your company will be able to arrange for your co-workers to receive appropriate training and examination so that your clients' requests for PCN Level 1 and 2 personnel can be fulfilled. You could even sit them yourself as a precursor to your Level 3's if whoever is paying considers it to be justifiable expenditure.

 
 Reply 
 
Mohamed Karim Ramy
Egypt, Joined Mar 2012, 12

Mohamed Karim Ramy

Egypt,
Joined Mar 2012
12
13:18 Sep-03-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Nigel Armstrong at 11:24 Sep-03-2014 .


Dear Nigel Armstrong the answer is not complete negative , my company can gained ATO and I need external AQB to examine our personnel. I think that will reduce the cost of training specially we have all NDT equipment and training facilities in company we only need to fulfill the other requirement to be ATO.and what I also understood from this discussion and from contacting with BINDT that if we have PCN level II technician certified from external AQB he can do all NDT in-house activities without need for hiring subcontractor . because personnel who are qualified in-house per SNT-TC-1A are refused to do NDT-Activities by the majority of clients and I think in case of certifying our for PCN level 2 via outside AQB we can overcome this problem and save a lot of cost to our company. because all what I said I see that PCN-Level III will be good advantage for me and my company in addition to it will increase my rate and my chances to find better position in the NDT market. am I right or Not?

 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
14:41 Sep-03-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Mohamed Karim Ramy at 13:18 Sep-03-2014 .

Mohamed

Nothing is ever completely negative unless whoever foots the not inconsiderable bill for ISO 9712 (PCN) certification for the NDT employees is persuaded that sufficient extra work will be gained. This will be needed to fund both the certification costs and the increased wages necessary for long term stability of the workforce, as the key difference between central and employer-based certification is the degree of portability.

Please do not make the mistake of under-estimating training costs - you will need to keep good control of a sufficient number of training samples for each of the methods.

My suggestion is that you look closely at the costs involved and determine the capital available for the project. A lot of ambitious projects are derailed by nobody willing to gamble on the return on investment. However if your company is losing work to other NDT companies with ISO 9712 approved workforce then it may be a necessary move.

 
 Reply 
 
Mohamed Karim
Egypt, Joined Mar 2012, 12

Mohamed Karim

Egypt,
Joined Mar 2012
12
07:28 Sep-04-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Nigel Armstrong at 14:41 Sep-03-2014 .

Thank you Mr. Nigel, but actually the problem we are facing now that most client tends to PCN level II, therefore our in-house system become not active as before our machines technicians by the way. we need to reactivate this session that's why we are thinking to qualify our people to PCN level II. but i have additional query dear if we have our PCN level II in-house team does it mandatory for company level III to be PCN level III? and what about written practice will we need separate written practice acc. to ISO 9712 in addition to TC-1A all we have to substitute TC-1A with ISo 9712

 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
10:36 Sep-04-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Mohamed Karim at 07:28 Sep-04-2014 .

is "...it mandatory for company level III to be PCN level III" No, a company Level 3 is not mandatory.

"will we need separate written practice acc. to ISO 9712" I suggest you obtaon a copy of ISO 9712 for its requirements.

Is there an NDT Society in the country where you are located (Egypt)? If so use their knowledge to gain information to assist you. If this doesn't provide answers then contact the other national institutes to determine the most suitable route for you to take. Having an in-house ISO 9712 Level 3 certified employee makes no difference to the steps your company will need to take to have certified Level 2 employees. Think of an ISO 9712 Level 3 as more technical than administrative.




 
 Reply 
 
Mohamed Karim
Egypt, Joined Mar 2012, 12

Mohamed Karim

Egypt,
Joined Mar 2012
12
12:51 Sep-04-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Nigel Armstrong at 10:36 Sep-04-2014 .

i want to clarify that my work now is in Qatar Not Egypt i am holding position Appointed NDT level III i had left Egypt from 1 year ago. BTW, Mr Nigel what are the advantages and chances in NDT market for PCN level III Personnel over ASNT Level II personnel

 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
13:10 Sep-04-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Mohamed Karim at 12:51 Sep-04-2014 .

Mohamed

That is a big question and very difficult to answer. I think I gave a clue in an last post :

"Think of an ISO 9712 Level 3 as more technical than administrative."

Not always true of course and many very technically competent ASNT Level IIIs, but the exam, being comprised of all multi-choice questions, has a greater chance of being learned by rote than ISO 9712. The latter requires passing a Level 2 practical exam as well as multi-choice and essay type questions and, I believe its still the case in PCN if not other ISO 9712 AOC's, of writing a full procedure

But as to an individual's progress, well there are so many variables such as networking skills , market demands, apart from proven NDT capabilities. If you want to wait until someone else foots the cost of your personal certification, you may have a long wait. Or you can bite the bullet, pay yourself and take a gamble on success bringing concomitant rewards.

Good luck

Nigel Armstrong

 
 Reply 
 
Mohamed Karim
Egypt, Joined Mar 2012, 12

Mohamed Karim

Egypt,
Joined Mar 2012
12
14:06 Sep-04-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Nigel Armstrong at 13:10 Sep-04-2014 .

So Dear Nigel , do you think it worth (from technical side, managerial side,career development side) to pay about 5000 GBP on my own behalf to be PCN level III in three methods.

 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
14:48 Sep-04-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Mohamed Karim at 14:06 Sep-04-2014 .

Mohamed

Only you can answer that question.

I paid for my PCN UT Level 3 exam in 1993. When I calculated the total cost of this single certificate I realized that for the same price I could obtain ASNT Level III certification in 4 methods. I sat and passed these and subsequently I have passed ISO 9712 in conventional and advanced methods (Phased Array and TOFD). I wont do an audit of cost-effectiveness otherwise I may kick myself for being a complete idiot!

Best regards

Nigel

 
 Reply 
 
Mohamed Karim Ramy
Egypt, Joined Mar 2012, 12

Mohamed Karim Ramy

Egypt,
Joined Mar 2012
12
14:57 Sep-04-2014
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Nigel Armstrong at 14:48 Sep-04-2014 .

Totally Agree sir. that's why I am willing to take this step soon.

 
 Reply 
 
ken
ken
04:36 Jan-07-2016
Re: PCN In-House Certification
In Reply to Mohamed Karim at 12:51 Sep-04-2014 .

There is no difference between a PCN level III and ASNT Level III with regards to level III work.

Maybe in cases whereby ASNT Level III person passed his level III exam but does not have hands on practical experience, the PCN forces a person to at least be able to "do something" to pass one practical exams.

With regards to the exams at level III, ASNT Level III is more difficult to pass than PCN Level III. This is because ASNT Level III does not have a real structured notes and PCN level III through ATO have them.

PCN cost very much more than ASNT Level III.

If I can pass ASNT Level III, I will do that instead of PCN.

Just my humble understanding

 
 Reply 
 

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