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Technical Discussions
Carlos
Colombia, Joined Jan 2015, 3

Carlos

Colombia,
Joined Jan 2015
3
16:27 Sep-14-2015
Notches in IIW block


Good day

To serve or what the aim of the notches that bring new blocks iiw?


http://www.phtool.com/store2/proddetail.asp?prod=PAIIW.MX

Carlo

2
 
 Reply 
 
Paul Holloway
Consultant,
Holloway NDT & Engineering Inc , Canada, Joined Apr 2010, 242

Paul Holloway

Consultant,
Holloway NDT & Engineering Inc ,
Canada,
Joined Apr 2010
242
16:55 Sep-20-2015
Re: Notches in IIW block
In Reply to Carlos at 16:27 Sep-14-2015 (Opening).

I assume you mean the 4 notches in the upper right of the image you linked. Perhaps Phil Herman can chime in on this, but I would presume it's for crack sizing; verifying the positions of the tip diffracted signal and the corner trap.

3
 
 Reply 
 
Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1300

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1300
19:05 Sep-20-2015
Re: Notches in IIW block
In Reply to Carlos at 16:27 Sep-14-2015 (Opening).

Carlos, I took a look at the photo in the link you provided. I do not know who invented the design, but it does not appear to be one that has any national or international approval. It is called a "Phased Array IIW Block" but it has no resemblance to the design that the IIW/ISO committees have been working on.
The text below the image refers to a "Type A" Calibration block. The only document that seems to refer to an IIW-Type block with the term "Type A" is the old French Norm NF A 09-310.
It would seem that using the term "IIW-Type" can give the block a false representation that it is some sort of official Standard. Buyer beware!

2
 
 Reply 
 
Phil Herman
Sales, - Manufacture of NDT Reference Standards/Test Blocks
PH Tool Reference Standards, USA, Joined Oct 1999, 79

Phil Herman

Sales, - Manufacture of NDT Reference Standards/Test Blocks
PH Tool Reference Standards,
USA,
Joined Oct 1999
79
05:56 Sep-21-2015
Re: Notches in IIW block
In Reply to Carlos at 16:27 Sep-14-2015 (Opening).

I'll try to shed some light on this block but will need to do some digging in our files as it is a bit fuzzy. What I recall is that the design was presented to PH Tool about 10 years ago and at the time, it was described as an IIW-type block for phased array UT. The company manufactured a small quantity for a reseller and engraved the initial run with that rather confusing description as the drawing specified. Shortly after the company began offering this design to the NDT community, we changed the name from PA IIW to Cal Block Type A. Part of the confusion continues as the item images were taken of the early blocks and do not capture the newer name. I understood that the four slots were to be used for crack sizing but cannot intelligently explain more. This block is NOT the same block as the newly approved ISO block, nor is it trying to be. That version will be available from the company very soon. At this time, only a few prototypes have been manufactured and shared with the ISO design team.

3
 
 Reply 
 
Phil Herman
Sales, - Manufacture of NDT Reference Standards/Test Blocks
PH Tool Reference Standards, USA, Joined Oct 1999, 79

Phil Herman

Sales, - Manufacture of NDT Reference Standards/Test Blocks
PH Tool Reference Standards,
USA,
Joined Oct 1999
79
00:17 Sep-22-2015
Re: Notches in IIW block
In Reply to Phil Herman at 05:56 Sep-21-2015 .

As promised, I dig some digging and was able to locate the origin of this block. It first crossed my desk in early 2006 as a GEIT drawing dated May 19, 2005. I will not state the drawing no. here publicly, but the title block is "Block; PA IIW." As a side note, the PH Tool marketing team updated the images on our store today to remove the potentially confusing "IIW-Type" reference that appeared on the engraved block. No suggestion of an official standard was ever made, implied, or intended.

4
 
 Reply 
 
Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1300

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1300
13:46 Sep-22-2015
Re: Notches in IIW block
In Reply to Phil Herman at 00:17 Sep-22-2015 .

Thanks for that background Phil. The industry has been looking for a PAUT reference block for awhile now. The drawing you quoted was 7 years prior to the IIW meeting.
It was not until 2012 that a working group was assembled by the International Institute of Welding, to consider a new calibration block design for phased-array ultrasonic applications. There were a few "recommendations" for the IIW committee to consider. Having a variety of block designs available is normal in NDT. It was not until I read the 1990 paper in NDT International by Fred Hotchkiss that I realised there was a naming protocol using "Type". With the many variations on this particular "shape" of block, the old paper is a handy reference.
Guide to designs of IIW-type blocks, F. H. C. Hotchkiss, NDT International, Volume 23 Number 6 December 1990

5
 
 Reply 
 
Rick Lopez
R & D,
John Deere - Moline Technology Innovation Center, USA, Joined Jul 2011, 191

Rick Lopez

R & D,
John Deere - Moline Technology Innovation Center,
USA,
Joined Jul 2011
191
15:07 Sep-22-2015
Re: Notches in IIW block
In Reply to Phil Herman at 00:17 Sep-22-2015 .

Ed and Phil,
Interesting discussion. I had come across a November 2006 paper and presentation a few years ago that used this block design, and it seems likely that this GE team was the originators. When the second author visited us in 2011 I had quizzed him a bit about the block, and it didn't seem like he was aware it was being fabricated commercially. If you look at Section 3.4 it describes how the four slots were to simulate cracks of increasing depth:
http://www.ndt.net/article/apcndt2006/papers/60.pdf

I came across the actual presentation from this session at some point that contains a few more pictures, but the punchline is the same.
Regards

3
 
 Reply 
 
Phil Herman
Sales, - Manufacture of NDT Reference Standards/Test Blocks
PH Tool Reference Standards, USA, Joined Oct 1999, 79

Phil Herman

Sales, - Manufacture of NDT Reference Standards/Test Blocks
PH Tool Reference Standards,
USA,
Joined Oct 1999
79
20:41 Sep-22-2015
Re: Notches in IIW block
In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 13:46 Sep-22-2015 .

It is my pleasure, Ed. I agree that the Fred Hotchkiss' article is a great resource for understanding the myriad of test blocks resembling the IIW-types. He clearly explains that by adding "-type" after "IIW", the test block is not one approved by the International Institute of Welding, but rather is a close cousin. I think many in our industry today think the "Type" is a prefix for the number that follows; typically a 1 or 2. Perhaps this thread will help to educate all of us. Thanks, Carlos, for initiating the conversation!

1
 
 Reply 
 
Phil Herman
Sales, - Manufacture of NDT Reference Standards/Test Blocks
PH Tool Reference Standards, USA, Joined Oct 1999, 79

Phil Herman

Sales, - Manufacture of NDT Reference Standards/Test Blocks
PH Tool Reference Standards,
USA,
Joined Oct 1999
79
20:49 Sep-22-2015
Re: Notches in IIW block
In Reply to Rick Lopez at 15:07 Sep-22-2015 .

Thanks, Rick. This paper from 2006 is very helpful. I'm not surprised that one of the authors was unaware that the block was being manufactured during his visit with you in 2011. PH Tool did not make the initial production run until March of 2011. I imagine it took some time for this design to get legs, and for requests to start showing up.

1
 
 Reply 
 

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