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Technical Discussions
Shankar Arumugam
Other, NDE Engineer
India, Joined Oct 2013, 39

Shankar Arumugam

Other, NDE Engineer
India,
Joined Oct 2013
39
14:30 Apr-28-2015
clarification in non piping calibration block

For Non piping calibration blocks- diameters less than 500 mm a curved block shall be used. Is that curved block need Side drill holes? How I make a non piping curved block with SDH?

 
 Reply 
 
jaimin patel
NDT Inspector, NDT LeveL-III @ UIC, KSA
Saudi Arabia, Joined Dec 2012, 100

jaimin patel

NDT Inspector, NDT LeveL-III @ UIC, KSA
Saudi Arabia,
Joined Dec 2012
100
16:38 Apr-28-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Shankar Arumugam at 14:30 Apr-28-2015 (Opening).

as per T-434.2.1 dia less than 500mm for non piping need sdh as well as notches.

 
 Reply 
 
Shankar Arumugam
Other, NDE Engineer
India, Joined Oct 2013, 39

Shankar Arumugam

Other, NDE Engineer
India,
Joined Oct 2013
39
05:34 Apr-29-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to jaimin patel at 16:38 Apr-28-2015 .

Dear Mr. Jaimin Patel,

SDH is mandatory in non piping calibration block as per T-434.2.1. But how I make 38 mm deep SDH in a curved surface? As per T-434.1.7.2 the curvature range from 24 mm to 500 mm in diameter requires 6 curved blocks for any thickness range. In that minimum diameter (given 26 mm) how I make SDH up to the depth of 38 mm?

 
 Reply 
 
jaimin patel
NDT Inspector, NDT LeveL-III @ UIC, KSA
Saudi Arabia, Joined Dec 2012, 100

jaimin patel

NDT Inspector, NDT LeveL-III @ UIC, KSA
Saudi Arabia,
Joined Dec 2012
100
06:24 Apr-29-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Shankar Arumugam at 05:34 Apr-29-2015 .

Dear shankar,

please tell me your dia of job and thickness

 
 Reply 
 
Shankar Arumugam
Other, NDE Engineer
India, Joined Oct 2013, 39

Shankar Arumugam

Other, NDE Engineer
India,
Joined Oct 2013
39
06:33 Apr-29-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to jaimin patel at 06:24 Apr-29-2015 .

Dear Mr.Jaimin Patel,

Now I Planned to prepare 3 curved blocks, having dia 88.9 x 17.56 mm thick, dia 168.3 x 40 mm thick and dia 273.1x46.5 mm thick. Making the 2% notch is not a problem. But how to make the SDH of 38 mm deep?

 
 Reply 
 
jaimin patel
NDT Inspector, NDT LeveL-III @ UIC, KSA
Saudi Arabia, Joined Dec 2012, 100

jaimin patel

NDT Inspector, NDT LeveL-III @ UIC, KSA
Saudi Arabia,
Joined Dec 2012
100
07:37 Apr-29-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Shankar Arumugam at 06:33 Apr-29-2015 .

For
(1) Dia.=88.9mm thk.=17.56

For blocks less than 3/4 in. (19 mm) in thickness, only the 1/2T side-drilled hole and surface notches are required.

so u can take same dia. and thk block and make sdh of dia 2.5mm at 8.78 mm
and notches as per given close.

(2)Dia.=168.3 thk.=40

so u can make block from same dia and thk.

sdh will be @ 10,20,30 mm and dia will be 2.5mm as given by code.

(3)Dia.=273.1 thk.=46.5

make block from same dia and thk.
sdh will be @ 11.6,23.25,34.8 and dia will be 3mm as per code.

still i dont get your point where u encounter this issuse of 38 mm deep?

 
 Reply 
 
jaimin patel
NDT Inspector, NDT LeveL-III @ UIC, KSA
Saudi Arabia, Joined Dec 2012, 100

jaimin patel

NDT Inspector, NDT LeveL-III @ UIC, KSA
Saudi Arabia,
Joined Dec 2012
100
07:39 Apr-29-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to jaimin patel at 07:37 Apr-29-2015 .

for 2nd block dia will be 3mm not 2.5mm

 
 Reply 
 
Shankar Arumugam
Other, NDE Engineer
India, Joined Oct 2013, 39

Shankar Arumugam

Other, NDE Engineer
India,
Joined Oct 2013
39
08:21 Apr-29-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to jaimin patel at 07:39 Apr-29-2015 .

Dear Mr. Jaimin Patel,

The location of the SDH and size of the SDH is not a problem. But while drill a hole of 38 mm deep in a curved surface, it will not go streight. It will not meet the tolerance for the hole location through the calibration block thickness shall be 3 mm as per Figure T-431.2.1 general notes (c).

 
 Reply 
 
jaiminthejack@gmail.com
NDT Inspector, NDT LeveL-III @ UIC, KSA
Saudi Arabia, Joined Dec 2012, 100

jaiminthejack@gmail.com

NDT Inspector, NDT LeveL-III @ UIC, KSA
Saudi Arabia,
Joined Dec 2012
100
14:48 Apr-29-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Shankar Arumugam at 08:21 Apr-29-2015 .

Dear shankar,

i Worked for L&T piping project in india and we created more than 11 block range from thk. 15 to 70mm but we never encounterted this kind of issues.

P.S: try to tell your manf. make fixtue that will hold your block so drill will be stright.

 
 Reply 
 
Bill
USA, Joined Jan 2010, 52

Bill

USA,
Joined Jan 2010
52
19:56 Apr-29-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Shankar Arumugam at 08:21 Apr-29-2015 .

Shankar,

Your comments are clear. Indeed to maintain tolerance the SDH would have to also curve as you pointed out. Not impossible for EDM but very difficult and likely cost prohibitive

Though the issue is as you stated it is rare for a non-piping component to be ≤ 500mm. I’m not sure what your application is (not sure it was stated), or if this is for new weld acceptance or in-service exams (if it’s not a code exam it’s a different story). It should be noted ASME does tackle this issue with the new alternative piping block (also a SDH block). It’s probably worth your time to look at that (figure T434.3.2) even if it not really applicable.

If it’s a code exam, the best thing to hang your hat on is T-434.1.1. I would think you should be able to use that to discuss the issue with your client and reach an acceptable resolution.

 
 Reply 
 
Shankar Arumugam
Other, NDE Engineer
India, Joined Oct 2013, 39

Shankar Arumugam

Other, NDE Engineer
India,
Joined Oct 2013
39
09:11 Apr-30-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Bill at 19:56 Apr-29-2015 .

Dear Mr. Jaimin and Mr.Bill,

Thanks for your suggessions. Now I consider the following things.

1) The difference between Piping and Non Piping calibration blocks as per ASME Sec-V Article 4 : In any Boiler parts (ASME Sec-I), Vessels (ASME Sec-VII) and piping (B31.1) - welds in pipe materials (eg. SA106 Gr, SA335 Gr. etc..) (Example : Full penetraton Header to Nozzle weld, Header butt welds, Pipe butt welds etc..) we have to use Piping calibration blocks. Any other welds comes under Non piping. For that we have to use non piping calibration blocks.

2) For Non piping calibration block reference reflectors SDH and 2% 't' notches are mandatory as per T434.2.1.

3) For Piping calibration block reference reflector - 8% 't' to 11% 't' notches are mandatory as per T434.3.1. SDH may be used as an alternate reflector as per T434.3.2.

If anything is incorrect in the above, pl give your suggessition.

 
 Reply 
 
bruce hanson
bruce hanson
12:03 Apr-30-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Shankar Arumugam at 14:30 Apr-28-2015 (Opening).

I think what you are concerned with is that in a curved block you can't drill "curved" side drilled holes.

The drill depth of the side drilled holes is 38mm as you state. The location from the inspection surface is the 1/4t, 1/2t and 3/4t.
The center (18mm into the hole) of the side drilled hole for each of the 1/4t, 1/2t and 3/4t t holes will be measured from the surface .
So, at 18mm from the start end of the hole, will be parallel to the surface of the block and at the required 1/4, 1/2 or 3/4t depth. However, in order to make the hole parallel and at the right depth from the surface in the center of the hole, the start and end point of the hole will be out of position.
You will cal. at 18mm (center portion of the hole) from the end of the hole. That sets your sensitivity, Then use the notch to verify that the UT indication positions (ID/OD) lands correctly on the screen.

 
 Reply 
 
Bill
USA, Joined Jan 2010, 52

Bill

USA,
Joined Jan 2010
52
16:33 Apr-30-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to bruce hanson at 12:03 Apr-30-2015 .

Bruce,

You have correctly pointed out the solution provided in the alternative piping calibration block I stated previously. However no such language exists for the non-piping calibration block. Moreover the language is does use runs counter to doing this.

It would seem adopting the same langue used for the alternative piping block would be prudent. However solutions do exist now as I pointed to earlier.

 
 Reply 
 
Diep eng phan
NDT Inspector,
Vietnam, Joined Aug 2011, 15

Diep eng phan

NDT Inspector,
Vietnam,
Joined Aug 2011
15
07:22 Dec-17-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Shankar Arumugam at 09:11 Apr-30-2015 .

Dear Shankar Arumugam,
As your comments is completed using SDHs for alternative Notchs for Piping calibration block, this one i saw in asme V, article 4 T434.1.1 code. But i don't know what's SDHs in Diameter-It's meaning 2.5 mm or 3 mm or another?
because 2.5 mm is Diameter madatory for SDH with less than and equal 25mm in thick, and 3mm for more than 25 & less than 50mm. But all are for Non-piping case, not guide for piping!!!!
I feel confuse this one, So can you help me point out where mention this one(diameter of SDH for piping calibration block)?
Thanks so much!

 
 Reply 
 
Pablo
Engineering,
ASNT Level 3, Argentina, Joined Sep 2007, 10

Pablo

Engineering,
ASNT Level 3,
Argentina,
Joined Sep 2007
10
14:54 Dec-17-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Diep eng phan at 07:22 Dec-17-2015 .

Notes:
(2) Side drilled hole diameter, length, and tolerance shall be in accordance with T 434.2.1

 
 Reply 
 
phan hoang diep
NDT Inspector,
Vietnam, Joined Aug 2011, 15

phan hoang diep

NDT Inspector,
Vietnam,
Joined Aug 2011
15
15:53 Dec-17-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Pablo at 14:54 Dec-17-2015 .

Dear Pablo,
You said T434.2.1 where in code mention Size of SDH target for Non-piping calibration block. please make sure this one is corrective.
Because my concern is size of SDH is alternative target for notch in piping calibration block, but i saw T434.1.1 Reflectors as image attached, allow alternative reflector so that produce sentivity equal or greater than the specified reflector not mention size of SDH?
Until now i have not yet found where in code point out this one. Please reply for me if you make sure yourself is correct. (don't forget conduct for me locaiton in code).
Thanks!

 
 Reply 
 
Pablo
Engineering,
ASNT Level 3, Argentina, Joined Sep 2007, 10

Pablo

Engineering,
ASNT Level 3,
Argentina,
Joined Sep 2007
10
13:05 Dec-18-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to phan hoang diep at 15:53 Dec-17-2015 .

Dear Phan,
There is a figure for alternate calibration block for piping in ASME V 2013.
You can find it on page 57 (Figure T-434-3-2) Note (2).

Regards.

 
 Reply 
 
phan hoang diep
NDT Inspector,
Vietnam, Joined Aug 2011, 15

phan hoang diep

NDT Inspector,
Vietnam,
Joined Aug 2011
15
17:25 Dec-18-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Pablo at 13:05 Dec-18-2015 .

Dear Pablo,
I saw it, i will concern this one.
Thanks for reply!

 
 Reply 
 
Shankar Arumugam
Other, NDE Engineer
India, Joined Oct 2013, 39

Shankar Arumugam

Other, NDE Engineer
India,
Joined Oct 2013
39
09:32 Dec-19-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Diep eng phan at 07:22 Dec-17-2015 .

Dear Diep Eng Phan,

The side drill holes diameter is as same to be followed in Non Piping Calibration Blocks (Figure T-434.2.1). It is mentioned in Figure T-434.3-2 (Alternate Calibration Block for Piping) Notes[2].

For this Alternate Calibration block for Piping, inclusion of notches is optional only.

 
 Reply 
 
phan hoang diep
NDT Inspector,
Vietnam, Joined Aug 2011, 15

phan hoang diep

NDT Inspector,
Vietnam,
Joined Aug 2011
15
15:31 Dec-19-2015
Re: clarification in non piping calibration block
In Reply to Shankar Arumugam at 09:32 Dec-19-2015 .

Dear Shankar Arumugam,
Thanks for reply me, can i known more clearly about alternative calibration block?
Actually if you design calibration block follow as T434.3.2, i think that one is challenge for mechanical operator. Because as you said last time in this post about drill deep and along surface curver of sample.
So i give out for you a solution:
You only perform mechanical one surface is curver, and other opposite you keep flat. After that you drill SDHs as code referred. I think that so will easy in manufacture. Also make sure corrective sensitivity.
If i said not correct, please corrective this one help me.
Thanks!

 
 Reply 
 

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