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Technical Discussions
Víctor Manuel
Engineering,
GIE SA, Argentina, Joined Jan 2016, 3

Víctor Manuel

Engineering,
GIE SA,
Argentina,
Joined Jan 2016
3
20:33 Jan-12-2016
Ice ultrasound inspection

Hi!

I´m tring to do a steel mesuare across ice (Approximately 10 mm thick). I tried with several instruments, DMS GO, Krautkramer USN 52 and others, with several types of transducers (GE, SIUI, Krautkramer).

The best result at the moment was with the Krautkramer SEB 4 transducer using USN52 equipment, but the measure is not entirely correct.

Which transducer should be used to perform this measurement?

Thx!

 
 Reply 
 
Tom Nelligan
Engineering,
retired, USA, Joined Nov 1998, 390

Tom Nelligan

Engineering,
retired,
USA,
Joined Nov 1998
390
21:50 Jan-12-2016
Re: Ice ultrasound inspection
In Reply to Víctor Manuel at 20:33 Jan-12-2016 (Opening).

We have worked on some interesting applications that involved measuring ice thickness, ranging from ice hockey rinks that needed to measure 50 mm or so indoors, to geological researchers measuring elastic modulus in glacial core samples, to military organizations that wanted to measure ice on rivers and lakes that could be hundreds of millimeters thick to determine if it could support heavy vehicles. Pure clear ice is very transmissive, almost like carbon steel, but with the exception of ice hockey rinks, ice is often full of air bubbles and cracks that can make sound transmission difficult. Your case is also complicated by the fact that you're trying to measure something beneath the ice rather than the ice itself.

If you are trying to measure a steel pipe or tank that is coated with 10 mm of ice ice, that ice has likely built up over time and likely full of trapped air. If the ice cannot be removed at the test point, I trying an echo-to-echo test using a relatively low frequency dual element transducer, and while I haven't worked with the SEB 4 from our friends at GE that sounds like a good place to start. Unfortunately, you may see a lot of scatter noise in the ice, and you may also see multiple echoes from the ice thickness that may interfere with detection of echoes from the steel. if the ice is somehow bubble-free, then multiple backwall echoes from the ice/steel boundary may be fairly strong. If there is too much noise you may simply have to remove the ice in order to measure the steel.

One other note: single element contact transducers do not work well at low temperatures because of backing spikes that appear when the inside of the transducer cools and the backing that is designed to absorb unwanted energy becomes more transmissive. For that reason we always use duals in ice applications.

2
 
 Reply 
 
Frank Lund
R & D,
United Kingdom, Joined Apr 2005, 221

Frank Lund

R & D,
United Kingdom,
Joined Apr 2005
221
01:11 Jan-13-2016
Re: Ice ultrasound inspection
In Reply to Víctor Manuel at 20:33 Jan-12-2016 (Opening).

What is it about the steel that you are trying to measure through the ice?

 
 Reply 
 
Víctor Manuel
Engineering,
GIE SA, Argentina, Joined Jan 2016, 3

Víctor Manuel

Engineering,
GIE SA,
Argentina,
Joined Jan 2016
3
15:07 Jan-15-2016
Re: Ice ultrasound inspection
In Reply to Tom Nelligan at 21:50 Jan-12-2016 .

Tom,

as you say, the scatter noise is very high. I'm searching another transducer may be SEB1 or SEB2, but I can't find an aplication note (or similar) that assures me that really works, before buy it.

Frank,

there is gas

 
 Reply 
 
Víctor Manuel
Engineering,
GIE SA, Argentina, Joined Jan 2016, 3

Víctor Manuel

Engineering,
GIE SA,
Argentina,
Joined Jan 2016
3
19:55 Jan-15-2016
Re: Ice ultrasound inspection
In Reply to Tom Nelligan at 21:50 Jan-12-2016 .

Tom,

when you say "relatively low frequency", What frecuency would you use?

I would try with pashed array equipmet too, hoping for some positive result.

 
 Reply 
 
Tom Nelligan
Engineering,
retired, USA, Joined Nov 1998, 390

Tom Nelligan

Engineering,
retired,
USA,
Joined Nov 1998
390
20:36 Jan-15-2016
Re: Ice ultrasound inspection
In Reply to Víctor Manuel at 19:55 Jan-15-2016 .

I'd suggest trying 2 MHz or below, but whether it works well or not will be determined by the amount of trapped air (or micro-cracks) in the ice. If the ice was perfectly clean you could easily get through 25 mm or more at 5 MHz.

 
 Reply 
 

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