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- since 1996 -
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Technical Discussions
Mark
NDT Inspector,
RAE Engineering and Inspection Ltd, Canada, Joined Mar 2016, 13

Mark

NDT Inspector,
RAE Engineering and Inspection Ltd,
Canada,
Joined Mar 2016
13
22:06 Mar-16-2016
UT on the unbevelled side of the weld

Hi I am new guy with UT shearwave, and I have a couple of questions in the work to ask the experts for help.

1) is the fillet welds could be shear wave UTed by traditional manual UT? note: fillet welds are not full penetration welds.

what I am thinking there will be no sound wave reflected back from the fillet weld to metal interface if there is a lack of fusion or something. if the weld is good, then all the sound are passing by to the other side of the weld and reflected all over the places. is that right?


2) for the groove butt welds, one side of the groove is bevelled and the other side is not, is the traditional manual UT shear wave be ok to inspect both sides, or only the bevelled side.

what I am thinking there will be no sound wave reflected back from the unbevelled weld to metal interface if there is a lack of fusion or something. if the weld is good, then all the sound are passing by to the other side of the weld and reflected all over the places. is that right?

note: for the traditional manual UT, what I am thinking it is using one probe, not the pitch and catch method.

3) for the olympus Epoch XT, there is a mode for picth and catch mode, is that means I could use two same angle shear wave probes: one transmitting and one receiving, But I do not know know how to calibrate the two probes?

Thank you all guys in advance.

Mark

 
 Reply 
 
jon wallis
NDT Inspector, -
Netherlands, Joined Feb 2010, 626

jon wallis

NDT Inspector, -
Netherlands,
Joined Feb 2010
626
08:20 Mar-17-2016
Re: UT on the unbevelled side of the weld
In Reply to Mark at 22:06 Mar-16-2016 (Opening).

1) Yes you can perform manual UT on fillet welds but only in cases where you are looking for a particular discontinuity. In this case test pieces will need to be produced in order to verify the efficacy and 'refine' the examination. I have done this in the past using above mentioned pieces and a specific written procedure.
2) Manual UT examination of ½V welds is possible but yes, you may miss planar indications on the vertical plane but you should be able to detect other defects, slag for example.
3) You calibrate for the tandem technique with side drilled holes or flat bottom holes according to the code or norm you are working to. EN17640-2010 requires you to use a 6mm side drilled hole, for example.
If you have no experience of the tandem technique I suggest you don't do it. You will need a frame to mount the probes into and you will need to have an understanding of working in zones. Tandem technique examinations should always be explained in a procedure.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Daniel Braun
Daniel Braun
11:02 Mar-17-2016
Re: UT on the unbevelled side of the weld
In Reply to Mark at 22:06 Mar-16-2016 (Opening).


1) is the fillet welds could be shear wave UTed by traditional manual UT?

YES see, for example here: http://www.sonotronndt.com/Fillet_Welds.htm
you may find also instrument files on that page and play them back including the A-Scans recovery for each implemented focal law using ISONIC PA Office software (the link for the download is there as well)

Some more data is here:
http://www.sonotronndt.com/APPLICATIONS/PA_APPS/PA_APP_STORE/ISONIC_PA_EXPERT_FILLET.pdf

http://www.sonotronndt.com/APPLICATIONS/PA_APPS/PA_APP_STORE/ISONIC_PA_EXPERT_FILLET_CU.pdf

2) for the groove butt welds, one side of the groove is bevelled and the other side is not, is the traditional manual UT shear wave be ok to inspect both sides, or only the bevelled side.
YES see, for example here: http://www.sonotronndt.com/EXPERT_A_TRANSIT.htm
you may find also instrument files on that page and play them back including the A-Scans recovery for each implemented focal law using ISONIC PA Office software (the link for the download is there as well)

Some more data is here:
http://www.sonotronndt.com/APPLICATIONS/PA_APPS/PA_APP_STORE/ISONIC_PA_EXPERT_EXPERT_A.pdf

And here is Tandem B-Scan technique, which may be suitable as well:
http://www.sonotronndt.com/TANDEM_B_SCAN.htm
http://www.sonotronndt.com/APPLICATIONS/PA_APPS/PA_APP_STORE/ISONIC_2009_TANDEM_B_SCAN.pdf

 
 Reply 
 
mark
NDT Inspector,
RAE Engineering and Inspection Ltd, Canada, Joined Mar 2016, 13

mark

NDT Inspector,
RAE Engineering and Inspection Ltd,
Canada,
Joined Mar 2016
13
16:13 Mar-17-2016
Re: UT on the unbevelled side of the weld
In Reply to Daniel Braun at 11:02 Mar-17-2016 .

Thank you for your quick and kind input Daniel,

I looked up your links, it looks like you are using PA UT machine to do the fillet welds, it is not the Traditional Manual UT, like Olympus Epoch XT.

and The fillet weld you have looked like are full penetrated welds, is that right?

Mark

 
 Reply 
 
Daniel Braun
Daniel Braun
17:07 Mar-17-2016
Re: UT on the unbevelled side of the weld
In Reply to mark at 16:13 Mar-17-2016 .

That's correct - the data I submitted you with relates to the inspection of
the fillet welds with use of our portable PA instruments. The Inspection SW
Applications related to the inspection of the FILLET and CORNER (L-Shape)
welds are suitable for both full and incomplete penetration

Some more links on the subject:

http://www.ndt.net/forum/thread.php?rootID=61832#61864 - this is my post
dated Jan 20, 2016 - the links to the instrument files related to the
fillets with complete and incomplete penetration may be found there, all
files are playable with ISONIC PA Office SW in the PC

Also you may download a ZIP file here:
http://www.sonotronndt.com/APPLICATIONS/FILLET_TEE_PA/SHEAR_WAVE/Fillet_Corner_TKY_Tee_Welds.ppt.zip
inside the ZIP file you may find the relatively old PPT, the slides 14, 15
demonstrate the inspection of the skewed fillet weld with the preprogrammed
incomplete penetration, the goal of the inspection was finding of the areas
where the size of the incomplete penetration exceeds the limits, the user's
company was very kind to share with us plenty of the real files, from their
large inspection project, some files may be submitted to you if you're interesting

 
 Reply 
 
mark
NDT Inspector,
RAE Engineering and Inspection Ltd, Canada, Joined Mar 2016, 13

mark

NDT Inspector,
RAE Engineering and Inspection Ltd,
Canada,
Joined Mar 2016
13
17:15 Mar-17-2016
Re: UT on the unbevelled side of the weld
In Reply to jon wallis at 08:20 Mar-17-2016 .

Thank you, Jon,

Please see my question after each of your comments.

1) Yes you can perform manual UT on fillet welds but only in cases where you are looking for a particular discontinuity. In this case test pieces will need to be produced in order to verify the efficacy and 'refine' the examination. I have done this in the past using above mentioned pieces and a specific written procedure.
what do you mean by particular discontinuity? and how test pieces to be produced in order to verify the efficacy and refine the examination? could you give me some details of this information.

2) Manual UT examination of ½V welds is possible but yes, you may miss planar indications on the vertical plane but you should be able to detect other defects, slag for example.
since vertical planer indication is one of the critical indication to look for, So can I say that it is a limited way to UT on the unbevelled side of the weld.


3) You calibrate for the tandem technique with side drilled holes or flat bottom holes according to the code or norm you are working to. EN17640-2010 requires you to use a 6mm side drilled hole, for example.
If you have no experience of the tandem technique I suggest you don't do it. You will need a frame to mount the probes into and you will need to have an understanding of working in zones. Tandem technique examinations should always be explained in a procedure.

OK , thank you very much.

 
 Reply 
 
jon wallis
NDT Inspector, -
Netherlands, Joined Feb 2010, 626

jon wallis

NDT Inspector, -
Netherlands,
Joined Feb 2010
626
08:04 Mar-18-2016
Re: UT on the unbevelled side of the weld
In Reply to mark at 17:15 Mar-17-2016 .

1) Maybe you are looking for fusion on one face and need to check with a 0° probe or the depth of penetration.
2) Yes of course the examination is limited but examination of lots of different configurations is limited, welds 8mm thick for example.
3) Your welcome

 
 Reply 
 
Paul Holloway
Consultant,
Holloway NDT & Engineering Inc , Canada, Joined Apr 2010, 227

Paul Holloway

Consultant,
Holloway NDT & Engineering Inc ,
Canada,
Joined Apr 2010
227
02:41 Mar-19-2016
Re: UT on the unbevelled side of the weld
In Reply to Mark at 22:06 Mar-16-2016 (Opening).

I would not recommend performing conventional shear wave on fillet welds.

See this thread: http://www.ndt.net/forum/thread.php?msgID=61832%2361832

 
 Reply 
 
Volodymyr
Engineering, Deputy Director for Technical Issues/Head of Testing Laboratory/Chief of department/NDT
Joint Stock Company, Portugal, Joined Mar 2016, 25

Volodymyr

Engineering, Deputy Director for Technical Issues/Head of Testing Laboratory/Chief of department/NDT
Joint Stock Company,
Portugal,
Joined Mar 2016
25
19:32 Mar-19-2016
Re: UT on the unbevelled side of the weld
In Reply to Mark at 22:06 Mar-16-2016 (Opening).

zoom image

Fillet weld EN ISO 17640-2010 picture

zoom image



Hi, Mark!
Here You are!
Sorry, I haven't english copy
 
 Reply 
 
Mario Talarico
NDT Inspector,
Italy, Joined May 2010, 423

Mario Talarico

NDT Inspector,
Italy,
Joined May 2010
423
22:04 Mar-20-2016
Re: UT on the unbevelled side of the weld
In Reply to Volodymyr at 19:32 Mar-19-2016 .

Hallo Volodymyr,
the schema you ave attached is for full penetration joint and is not suitable for Mark topic.
Mark,
all fillet weld (joints with lack of penetration) have UT control possibilities that are dependent of configuration, dimensions, access possibility, ability and the means used by the executor of the control. In the forum there are already several posts about this. En passant..... my first packet of money I took on a fillet joint, with a procedure which guaranteed 10 mm fusion on one of the two bevels and volumetric check for body. The customer has accepted because often a bit is better than nothing.
As for the groove butt weld: why not put some figure and maybe some measure? We are technical and should use patterns, numbers and few words!

I have no experience on the joint you indicated. For as I sometimes fantasized about, it comes as usual to find the way to turn around the geometry of lack of penetration: then we need to collect UT information from both the beveled that not beveled side; for the rest of the body we will go as for any UT butt weld.
greetings
mario

1
 
 Reply 
 
Volodymyr
Engineering, Deputy Director for Technical Issues/Head of Testing Laboratory/Chief of department/NDT
Joint Stock Company, Portugal, Joined Mar 2016, 25

Volodymyr

Engineering, Deputy Director for Technical Issues/Head of Testing Laboratory/Chief of department/NDT
Joint Stock Company,
Portugal,
Joined Mar 2016
25
15:28 Mar-22-2016
Re: UT on the unbevelled side of the weld
In Reply to Mario Talarico at 22:04 Mar-20-2016 .

zoom image



Hi, Mark! Hi Mario!
This drawing of the standard, and it is suitable as a first step. It is necessary to draw a cross-section of the connection. learn the sensor parameters. It probably 2-3 different sensor: angle and initial pont of beam. Then draw on a cross-section of the filling seam and directly simulate the drawing. So we set the movement area of the sensor and any interfering signals occur.
I look for the photo, but often such control scheme I painted directly on the obbject's wall :)))
 
 Reply 
 

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