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- since 1996 -
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Technical Discussions
Adilah
Adilah
02:33 Apr-07-2016
PMI on finished equipment

Hi All,

Pardon my question, but how many points usually done on the finished equipment? I know that PMI often be conducted on the raw material however at this point, our supplier doesn't want to do the PMI so we need to hire third party to do PMI on the finished equipment.

I try to find any standards showing how many points we should take or how extensive should we go for but now Im still clueless. This is the first time we come across this type of situation.

Anyone care to share their experience?

Thank you very much.

Adilah

 
 Reply 
 
Rick Lopez
R & D,
John Deere - Moline Technology Innovation Center, USA, Joined Jul 2011, 190

Rick Lopez

R & D,
John Deere - Moline Technology Innovation Center,
USA,
Joined Jul 2011
190
15:09 Apr-07-2016
Re: PMI on finished equipment
In Reply to Adilah at 02:33 Apr-07-2016 (Opening).

Adilah,
I think that your question would benefit from some additional background. Are you dealing with a mixed material problem in your finished product, or are you looking for periodic verification of production? Another possible interpretation of your question could be: how many locations (points?) on a given part must I verify with PMI to be sure of a correct result?

Regards

 
 Reply 
 
aiph
Armenia, Joined Nov 2014, 196

aiph

Armenia,
Joined Nov 2014
196
16:48 Apr-07-2016
Re: PMI on finished equipment
In Reply to Adilah at 02:33 Apr-07-2016 (Opening).

could you tell me what's the meaning of PMI?

 
 Reply 
 
VENKATESWARASWAMY SWARNA
Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex , India, Joined Feb 2001, 787

VENKATESWARASWAMY SWARNA

Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex ,
India,
Joined Feb 2001
787
21:52 Apr-07-2016
Re: PMI on finished equipment
In Reply to aiph at 16:48 Apr-07-2016 .

PMI - Positive Materials Identification - normally done using XRF or OES....there are some more methods too....

 
 Reply 
 
John Hansen
Director, - Eddy Current Technology
ETher NDE Ltd, United Kingdom, Joined Oct 1999, 73

John Hansen

Director, - Eddy Current Technology
ETher NDE Ltd,
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 1999
73
22:51 Apr-07-2016
Re: PMI on finished equipment
In Reply to Rick Lopez at 15:09 Apr-07-2016 .

If the material is painted, plated or coated then PMI will not work and some other method like Eddy Current Conductivity measurement would be more appropriate.

 
 Reply 
 
Adilah
Adilah
07:41 Apr-08-2016
Re: PMI on finished equipment
In Reply to Rick Lopez at 15:09 Apr-07-2016 .

Dear Rick,

I believe the latter situation more accurate as what Im trying to find out.

"How many locations (points?) on a given part must I verify with PMI to be sure of a correct result?"

But I think, I might want to know the answer for the first part as well. the mix-up material.

We are more concern if wrong material is installed and may bring damage to the facilities.

Thank you for helping me to clarify my questions Rick.

 
 Reply 
 
Adilah
Adilah
08:27 Apr-08-2016
Re: PMI on finished equipment
In Reply to aiph at 16:48 Apr-07-2016 .

Dear Aiph,

From my reserach which focus more to non-destructive techniques (XRF analyser). This instrument can provide the chemical analysis of the metallic alloy and also show you what type of material is being inspected i.e. SS316 etc etc (But I heard its not too accurate)

So PMI usually conducted when you want to buy a new material, to inspect the correct material received. Or when there is a repair/replacement of equipment so you can make sure the correct material is installed. There is a lot more you can do with PMI.

As Mr. Swamy said, there is XRF and OES, where OES usually use to detect light element for example the carbon content.

Correct me if im wrong.

Thank you



 
 Reply 
 
Laurent
Laurent
10:35 Apr-08-2016
Re: PMI on finished equipment
In Reply to Adilah at 08:27 Apr-08-2016 .

Hi Adilah
The goal of a PMI is to confirm the steel used as said.
The acceptable type of equipment used are:
1. X-ray Tube Equipment (Handheld Analyzer)
2. X-Ray Florescence Equipment (Handheld Analyzer)
3. Optical Emission Spectrometers (Arc/Spark)

1 points for base material and weld (if applicable to confirm filler metal) is enough on stainless steel or high alloy steel.
However as most of equipment do the classifcation of the steel using the concentration found, if you don't have enough additionnal element in your steel, this classification could be wrong meaning you can have bad suprised by having wrong designation of metal. If you are stuck chemical analysis is accepted.
I'm not sure you can measure carbon content with PMI.


Hoping to have been enough clear.

 
 Reply 
 
P V SASTRY
R & D, NDT tecniques metallurgy
TAKEN VRS FROM THE POSITION OF SR. DEPUTY GENERAL MANAGER BHEL CORPORATE R&D, India, Joined Jan 2003, 195

P V SASTRY

R & D, NDT tecniques metallurgy
TAKEN VRS FROM THE POSITION OF SR. DEPUTY GENERAL MANAGER BHEL CORPORATE R&D,
India,
Joined Jan 2003
195
22:06 Apr-09-2016
Re: PMI on finished equipment
In Reply to Adilah at 02:33 Apr-07-2016 (Opening).


Similar topic was discussed in this forum earlier.

Coming to your question of "How many points to be done... on finished product"

How any one can give a proper answer without knowing the details like what is the product, size (rough dimensions) , type of metal (like ferrous non ferrous, SS,etc.) forging or casting or welded area etc.

Please furnish these details so that you may get some logical answer.

Please also clarify whether you finished product has a specified surface finish requirement/standard.

The portable XRF analyzers do not leave any surface mark but portable spectrometers use sparking for excitation. They leave a surface mark of about 6 mm dia and about 0.15 mm depth.

Best Wishes

P V SASTRY

 
 Reply 
 
Laurent
Consultant,
France, Joined Mar 2016, 16

Laurent

Consultant,
France,
Joined Mar 2016
16
15:43 Apr-13-2016
Re: PMI on finished equipment
In Reply to P V SASTRY at 22:06 Apr-09-2016 .

Dear Mr. Sastry,

To clarify:
One point by part of the equipment meaning for exemple, for a box 6 points (1 by plate) is enough.
For the weld the same approach.

If additionnal points are needed the construction code will precise it.

 
 Reply 
 

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