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Technical Discussions
KORS-NK
Director,
KORS-NDT Ltd, Russia, Joined Mar 2015, 4

KORS-NK

Director,
KORS-NDT Ltd,
Russia,
Joined Mar 2015
4
21:41 Apr-07-2015
Portable X-ray generator above 400kV

Dear collegeas,
I am loking for a portable X-ray generator above 400kV like Smart or ICM for using in a feild condition (non lab condition).
Please write me info about any developer.
Good wishes
Dmitry

 
 Reply 
 
Chuck Davis
,
Mexico, Joined May 2016, 12

Chuck Davis

,
Mexico,
Joined May 2016
12
04:19 May-11-2016
Re: Portable X-ray generator above 400kV
In Reply to KORS-NK at 21:41 Apr-07-2015 (Opening).

Did you ever get a question to your answer? I am looking for an xray unit capable of 400kv with a control panel that can drop it down to 180kv if necessary. I know about the 300 kv units, but I have a job with tie ins on 36 inch 17.55 wall thickness and the client is asking for xray. In my minds eye, that would need a 400kv unit and I can't seem to find one. Any body out there know of a brand?

Would be greatly appreciated

 
 Reply 
 
Chris
Consultant,
United Kingdom, Joined Dec 2012, 43

Chris

Consultant,
United Kingdom,
Joined Dec 2012
43
06:38 May-13-2016
Re: Portable X-ray generator above 400kV
In Reply to Chuck Davis at 04:19 May-11-2016 .

For portable x-ray look at
http://www.goldenengineering.com/index.html
These are pulsed X-ray sourcces - exposure is controlled by number of pulses.
Alternatively it may be possible to use a phospor plate or DDA with your existing 300Kv source. These detectors are more sensitive at lower kV than film. The exposure time may be longer compared to a 400kV source but this will be made up for by faster image readout times ( no film processing).

 
 Reply 
 
Christophe Greffe
Director,
X-Ray Imaging Solutions, Belgium, Joined Feb 2010, 5

Christophe Greffe

Director,
X-Ray Imaging Solutions,
Belgium,
Joined Feb 2010
5
12:26 May-13-2016
Re: Portable X-ray generator above 400kV
In Reply to Chris at 06:38 May-13-2016 .

For NDT applications Golden XRS-3 or XRS-4 are too weak in mA due to the pulses system.

* To work with film you need Eresco or Yxlon generators.

* To work with DR, you can use constant potential battery powered units such as GemX-160 or GemX-200 ( see : http://www.xris.eu/ndt/generators.html )

 
 Reply 
 
Chris
Consultant,
United Kingdom, Joined Dec 2012, 43

Chris

Consultant,
United Kingdom,
Joined Dec 2012
43
13:40 May-13-2016
Re: Portable X-ray generator above 400kV
In Reply to Christophe Greffe at 12:26 May-13-2016 .

Pulsed X--ray sources work very well for NDT purposes. It is simply untrue to say that they cannot be used for NDT. sse:
http://www.ndt.net/article/dir2011/papers/we23.pdf

for examples of high quality images take using pulsed X-ray geneator.

 
 Reply 
 
Christophe Greffe
Director,
X-Ray Imaging Solutions, Belgium, Joined Feb 2010, 5

Christophe Greffe

Director,
X-Ray Imaging Solutions,
Belgium,
Joined Feb 2010
5
15:01 May-13-2016
Re: Portable X-ray generator above 400kV
In Reply to Chris at 13:40 May-13-2016 .

Hi Chris,

It depends on what application you put behind the words NDT.

Your paper comes from Vidisco. But they use and promote GemX generators for NDT because they know there is a huge difference of quality between a pulsed source and a constant potential sources.

See eg: http://www.xris.eu/telechargement/applications/ndt/FA002%20-%20GemX%20vs%20Golden.pdf

Do you think ICM, GE, Yxlon and all the others would go on selling 20 to 40 kg "portable" x-ray generators costing 20,000 to 50,000 us$ if the ultraportable 5,000 us$ XRS-3 or -4 would be an answer ?

Rgds,
Christophe

 
 Reply 
 
Toby Kostner
Toby Kostner
13:01 Aug-07-2019
Re: Portable X-ray generator above 400kV
In Reply to Christophe Greffe at 15:01 May-13-2016 .

Correct me if I am wrong, but mA will affect duration of the exposure. It MAY be prohibitively long but if you have the time to wait mA is not that relevant. Kv is needed for penetrating power.

The XRIS GEMX series tops out at 225 Kv (I think, the website was not overly clear), while the XRS-4 puts out 370 Kv.

For my applications, time is of course factor, but more importantly, I need penetrating power(profile RT for secondary position verification of gate valves, from 2" wall to 3.5" wall). TO me, the higher Kv of the XRS-4 would give me more latitude for thicknesses than the GEMX series (unless there is a 350 Kv+ GEMX unit I am unaware of).

 
 Reply 
 
Christophe Greffe
Director,
X-Ray Imaging Solutions, Belgium, Joined Feb 2010, 5

Christophe Greffe

Director,
X-Ray Imaging Solutions,
Belgium,
Joined Feb 2010
5
23:18 Aug-08-2019
Re: Portable X-ray generator above 400kV
In Reply to Toby Kostner at 13:01 Aug-07-2019 .

Hi

GemX can’t be used for 2 to 3.5 inches of steel but Golden XRS cannot either. I will retired before you have finished the shot...

For these thicknesses you need Ir192 or 360 kV high power xray. And I confirm that you can’t achieve NDT standards with pulsed sources. You get an image but it is noisy and you can’t conclude anything.

 
 Reply 
 
KORS-NDT
Director,
KORS-NDT Ltd, Russia, Joined Mar 2015, 4

KORS-NDT

Director,
KORS-NDT Ltd,
Russia,
Joined Mar 2015
4
12:52 Aug-12-2019
Re: Portable X-ray generator above 400kV
In Reply to Christophe Greffe at 23:18 Aug-08-2019 .

Hello!
I conducted several experiments on this subject under the technical task.
The technical task was to conduct radiographic control of a thick-walled pipeline with an internal diameter of more than 150 mm with a wall thickness of 16 mm to 32 mm. Material is low alloy steel. We tried to control 300kV DC X-ray generators (YXLON and Seifert) and pulsed ones with a voltage of 300kV, 500kV and 1000kV. Friendly speaking, the data stated by the manufacturer of the pulse devices with regards to the output voltage seem to be overstated.
The control was carried out on a radiographic film of AGFA F8 + reinforcing screens NDT1200 and on D7 + lead screens and their combinations. Also tried reusable phosphor plates DUERR.
When using the x-ray generator of constant potential for 300kv, it was possible to control the wall thickness up to 16mm, the wire standard was visible and the sensitivity was arranged by the Customer. With wall thicknesses greater than 16mm, the generator lacks penetration. The increase in exposure time does not lead to a good result, since there is a huge problem with the protection from scattered radiation, especially if the product is of complex shape, such as a tee or fitting.
In addition, I had the impression that the radiation spectrum of the permanent generator is shifted towards the low-energy region, that is, only 5 percent of the output radiation in the generator at 300kv comes out with similar energy, the rest is much lower.
With the use of pulse generators with a voltage of more than 500 kV, the sensitivity of the control is sharply reduced due to the large focal spot and its fluctuation.
The use of reusable plates has not led to an improvement in the quality of control, as the above-mentioned plates are even more sensitive to scattered radiation.
The problem is solved with the help of Iridium or Cobalt, but the Customer did not want to contact such materials.
The problem is still not solved, although the Customer is willing to pay the money.
I hope the information was useful to You.
Cheers,
Dmitry

 
 Reply 
 
laurie
Australia, Joined Feb 2019, 36

laurie

Australia,
Joined Feb 2019
36
02:52 Aug-13-2019
Re: Portable X-ray generator above 400kV
In Reply to Toby Kostner at 13:01 Aug-07-2019 .

zoom image

Golden Engineering XR-200 Spectrum

For reference I've attached the energy spectrum for the Golden XR-200 which is marketed as a 150keV unit.
As you can see the most energy is produced around 45keV and is almost negligible at 150keV.
That, the large focal spot size and the low mA produced by the pulses is why it's practically impossible to get images with pulsed units on thick material - too low keV and too low mA and too much geometric unsharpness.
That's not to say the Golden units aren't terrific bits of gear for thinner or less attenuating material, or for corrosion under insulation, they are, they're just not for thick material when code sensitivity is required.
Yes, I know the XRS3 has keV of around 270 but again, that is PEAK, and most of the energy is probably around 120 and same low mA even with a lot of counts and has a larger spot size.
Of course the energy spectrum also applies to constant potential units but the energy spread needs to be considered.
 
 Reply 
 
Christophe Greffe
Director,
X-Ray Imaging Solutions, Belgium, Joined Feb 2010, 5

Christophe Greffe

Director,
X-Ray Imaging Solutions,
Belgium,
Joined Feb 2010
5
08:07 Aug-13-2019
Re: Portable X-ray generator above 400kV
In Reply to laurie at 02:52 Aug-13-2019 .

Hello,

Thank you for the data.

I agree with you on the XR200 data. The main advantages of Golden sources are their weight. And for this, they are THE solution for security applications.

Regarding the performances that can be achieved with 300 kV DC : I am amazed that you "only" achieve 16 mm. I assume it is due to the use of a CR ( ? ) :

* More than 12 mm Fe can easily be achieved with a DR ( see Case Study 1 here : http://xris.eu/image_quality ) and with the highest standards ( 0.5 % contrast )

* With a 300 kV and a DR we can penetrate 50 mm of steel with a contrast resolution of 2 % with Dereo HE 4040 ( http://xris.eu/portable_ndt )

 
 Reply 
 

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