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Career Discussions
sibu
NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd, India, Joined Mar 2016, 27

sibu

NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd,
India,
Joined Mar 2016
27
18:09 May-19-2016
changes of material

I'm checking Ut -contact method butt weld joint one side is C.S pipe and another side is Inconel material ..when I'm using 60 angle probe one discontinuity coming I checked using 1:1 graph and its showing location like a root . but we thinking like a defect but its coming all joints what's the problems ??? In case of velocity changing means it should comes in 45° but its not coming in 45° ...yyyyy

 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 747

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
747
21:49 May-19-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to sibu at 18:09 May-19-2016 (Opening).

Must be due to velocity changes by inconel. You must be using shear waves. For inconel, use refracted L-waves that are affected lesser than Shear waves

 
 Reply 
 
sibu
NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd, India, Joined Mar 2016, 27

sibu

NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd,
India,
Joined Mar 2016
27
17:57 May-21-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to Anmol Birring at 21:49 May-19-2016 .

I agreed ur point , but why that same echo its not coming in 45° its coming only 60° angle.

 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 747

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
747
20:19 May-21-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to sibu at 17:57 May-21-2016 .

There is mode conversion with 60 degree angle

 
 Reply 
 
sibu
NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd, India, Joined Mar 2016, 27

sibu

NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd,
India,
Joined Mar 2016
27
04:31 May-22-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to Anmol Birring at 20:19 May-21-2016 .

Dear Mr.anmol Birding,
1. Plz explain this mode conversion part of inside the material , actually my bevel angle also 37.5
Thank u..
Sibu

 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 747

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
747
16:04 May-22-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to sibu at 04:31 May-22-2016 .

Please weld joint design, surface distance (beam exit point to weld center line), a photo showing probe placement with the corresponding A-scan screen shots

 
 Reply 
 
massimo carminati
Consultant, AUT specialist
IMG Ultrasuoni Srl, Italy, Joined Apr 2007, 691

massimo carminati

Consultant, AUT specialist
IMG Ultrasuoni Srl,
Italy,
Joined Apr 2007
691
07:49 May-23-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to sibu at 04:31 May-22-2016 .

When you post such questions please make sure to share all inforation.

 
 Reply 
 
sibu
NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd, India, Joined Mar 2016, 27

sibu

NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd,
India,
Joined Mar 2016
27
18:26 May-23-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to massimo carminati at 07:49 May-23-2016 .

zoom image
Sorry Mr.Massimo I maked trouble to u ,
1. Weld design:
A.Two pipe having same thickness (7.6 mm) welded together one side material is SA 333 Gr 6 and another side is Inconel 600 with using of insert ring( smooth penetration purpose)
B. Bevel angle - 37.5° plus or minus 2.5°
C. GTAW welding ( butt weld )
2.surface distance -16 mm
Beam path - 18 to 19 ( its not same coming its Changing like 19 mm and 17mm also)
3.scanning from pipe side means the beam path its coming around 19mm and scanning from inconel side means its coming beam path 13 mm but surface distance is same .
Thank u
By
Sibu....!!!!

 
 Reply 
 
Shankar Arumugam
Other, NDE Engineer
India, Joined Oct 2013, 39

Shankar Arumugam

Other, NDE Engineer
India,
Joined Oct 2013
39
07:41 May-24-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to sibu at 18:09 May-19-2016 (Opening).

Dear Sibu,

As per your weld profile the indication comes from the root of the weld and 60 degree is exactly perpendicular to the root profile in the ½ skip. 45 degree may not exactly perpendicular to the root profile. So you not getting the root indication in the 45 degree.

As Mr. Anmol Birring told the Inconel material is having different velocity, that’s why the beam path changes from CS pipe to Inconel.

 
 Reply 
 
sibu
NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd, India, Joined Mar 2016, 27

sibu

NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd,
India,
Joined Mar 2016
27
17:33 May-24-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to Shankar Arumugam at 07:41 May-24-2016 .

Dear shankar,
Actually sir this problem coming in all joints I checked around 50no's its coming throughout circumference of the weld( I missed to mentioned this topic sorry ) may be Mr.anmol birding saying mode conversion inside material but I don't know how to mode convert inside the material plz explain anybody

 
 Reply 
 
massimo carminati
Consultant, AUT specialist
IMG Ultrasuoni Srl, Italy, Joined Apr 2007, 691

massimo carminati

Consultant, AUT specialist
IMG Ultrasuoni Srl,
Italy,
Joined Apr 2007
691
11:32 May-25-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to sibu at 18:26 May-23-2016 .

Ok now.
First thing. Your SNR is too poor to make any evaluation; this is first due to shear waves, secondarily to the probe size. For this type of inspection you need to converge ultrasound beam energy as much as you can. We have gained a good experience with this dissimilar material welds and we can design and manufacure specific dual compression waves probes for your inspection in less than 10 working days. Contact me directly if you are interested.

 
 Reply 
 
sibu
NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd, India, Joined Mar 2016, 27

sibu

NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd,
India,
Joined Mar 2016
27
18:26 May-25-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to massimo carminati at 11:32 May-25-2016 .

Dear Mr.massimo
Some cost wise its difficult to
purchase that probes . thanks for asking
And what's mean by SNR & I don't have knowledge in dual compression probe plz explain sir or else give me some link ..
Thank u
By
Sibu

 
 Reply 
 
Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1271

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1271
23:15 May-25-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to sibu at 18:26 May-25-2016 .

Sibu, I typed SNR in a google search and the wikipedia definition appeared as the second option of the search results...perhaps you would get a similar answer by simply doing a Google search...
Your contact information indicates you are working for branch of Llyod's, a VERY large corporation. I would find it difficult to believe that a probe is a cost restriction for a company that size. No doubt such a company would be able to afford the finest engineering to provide a Level 3 capable of designing and providing the required instruction for a UT technician to be performing examination of dissimilar metal welds. I cannot imagine that any company would allow you to carry out an examination on a project without adequate equipment. training and SUPERVISION.

 
 Reply 
 
sibu
NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd, India, Joined Mar 2016, 27

sibu

NDT Inspector,
contractor staff at punj lloyd ltd,
India,
Joined Mar 2016
27
03:11 May-26-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 23:15 May-25-2016 .

Dear Ed ginzel,
Actually discussed with my level 3 he says that kind of no of piece's (job) is very less , I can't argue with them . I'm contract worker I can't speak beyond my limit . I hope to u understand to all .
Thanks for sharing more knowledge I learned more in this type of job

 
 Reply 
 
Gokul Hrishikesh
NDT Inspector, PCN UT Level 3
India, Joined Jul 2013, 73

Gokul Hrishikesh

NDT Inspector, PCN UT Level 3
India,
Joined Jul 2013
73
13:10 May-27-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to sibu at 18:09 May-19-2016 (Opening).

Sibu,

If you have a chance use higher frequency probe for lower thickness on CS side at-least.

You see the geometry on 60 degree (half beam path), but not on 45 degree half beam path probably your probe at 45 degree is hitting the cap but the beam is not covering geometry.
less thickness but the cap can be wider (I cannot see clear in the image if cap is flushed)
Other notable fact is your 45 degree half beam path will be in dead zone (limitation of single element, were dual element probes come into action)

If the above case is true you will get the geometry in 1 and 1/2 leg.

You should be aware of the velocity difference and attenuation(Carbon steel and Inconel) and include the factors in your calculations manually rather than blindly believing on what is seen on the flaw detector.

And it is a pity that your superior Level III give such response.

Hope it helps!!

Hope it helps!

 
 Reply 
 
massimo carminati
Consultant, AUT specialist
IMG Ultrasuoni Srl, Italy, Joined Apr 2007, 691

massimo carminati

Consultant, AUT specialist
IMG Ultrasuoni Srl,
Italy,
Joined Apr 2007
691
18:13 May-29-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to Gokul Hrishikesh at 13:10 May-27-2016 .

I would stich with dual Longitudinal waves instead of shear waves at any frequency and, what's most important, I would always avoid to skip on such small ID. This is more possible with PA. We have a 2.25 MHz probe 16 Elements in our catalogue which is compatible with Circ-it scanner, combined with both 60L and 60 S wedges. This could be another option. The problem is that this technology is still assumed to be used on high end, high value added production only. Maybe in 10 years from now it will be available for all users.

 
 Reply 
 
Gokul Hrishikesh
NDT Inspector, PCN UT Level 3
India, Joined Jul 2013, 73

Gokul Hrishikesh

NDT Inspector, PCN UT Level 3
India,
Joined Jul 2013
73
14:27 May-30-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to massimo carminati at 18:13 May-29-2016 .

Yes I totaly agree with you.
If given a chance who will say no to the best probes,equipment but it all comes with a cost.
Also the one with more exposure to technology will perform the tasks more neatly... A day will come when it gets cheaper and it will be a normal practice all around (like the one we said)... then someone like us will be talking about upper hand technologies at that particular time frame.. and the trend will continue.. Ain't it!

Kind Regards,
Gokul

 
 Reply 
 
Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1271

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1271
15:33 May-30-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to Gokul Hrishikesh at 14:27 May-30-2016 .

Gokul, I agree with your predictions of technology too! But some of this is not expensive and not that highly technical that it cannot be applied manually. Changing the wedge angle of a manual UT probe to afford compression mode is very inexpensive.
An entire book was prepared on the topic back in 1997 by Schmid (http://www.ndt.net/article/pow1297/schmid/schmid.htm) so people have been working on manual solutions for some time now.
But I am more critical of the company or its Level 3 who seems to have not provided a functioning procedure and demonstrated to and trained the Level 2 technicians on how they are to inspect the welds. Dissimilar welds are not new, but they are not simple and present a variable inspection challenge. The approach cannot be to simply send out an ill-prepared technician without proper equipment (including cheap L-mode wedges) and without proper training on the procedure that the Level 3 would have been responsible for.

 
 Reply 
 
Gokul Hrishikesh
NDT Inspector, PCN UT Level 3
India, Joined Jul 2013, 73

Gokul Hrishikesh

NDT Inspector, PCN UT Level 3
India,
Joined Jul 2013
73
17:45 May-30-2016
Re: changes of material
In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 15:33 May-30-2016 .

Thanks for sharing Ed, very informative indeed!

Regarding such Level III's, I think we all are on same page.
"Caution" can be the only suggestion to clients.

Kind Regards

 
 Reply 
 

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