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Technical Discussions
Varghese
Varghese
12:51 Feb-04-2016
ToFD for Piping

I got some joints to perform ToFD on piping 16" dia with thickness 14.27 mm. mandatory Appendix III of ASME Section V requires SDH along the pipe curvature for confirmation of sensitivity and the foot note ( of figure III-434.2.1(a)) requires for diameter less than 20 inches and below block curvature should meet the requirements of T.434.1.7.2. I guess we could make such holes, but wondering does the code makes any provision to use notches in such situation?

My job is a CC-181 application and I am using PA as main technique , but client insists on ToFD as well. I am clear with the PA part, just stuck with the ToFD because of the SDH requirement.

Appreciates any suggestions?

 
 Reply 
 
Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1300

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1300
14:49 Feb-04-2016
Re: ToFD for Piping
In Reply to Varghese at 12:51 Feb-04-2016 (Opening).

Indeed, ASME has not made the details of TOFD examination very clear in their wording.
SDHs are not being used to establish sensitivity. Setting sensitivity is described in III-463.2 where you are to use lateral wave amplitude or grass from the grain structure noise. III-463.3 and III-463.4 and III-463.5 describe confirmation of coverage using the SDHs. For thick sections where you are trying to determine if you have adequate off-axis sensitivity to cover the volume in the vertical plane with a single probe, the SDHs are useful. But the SDHs are probably not the best targets when assessing the beam coverage for an offset scan. The offset scans are generally required where the weld is wide and the edge of the beam does not provide detection in the HAZ at the far surface. For this assessment the notch on the far surface would be a better option; however, ASME has not included it.
Sorry, no direct answer to your question but merely pointing out the shortcomings of the wording in ASME. Perhaps someone on the ASME Section V committee is reading these posts (or could be made aware of them) and could make the necessary improvements to wording.
Another option is to go through the formal approach and write to the ASME committee for a Code Interpretation.

 
 Reply 
 
varghese
varghese
16:00 Feb-04-2016
Re: ToFD for Piping
In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 14:49 Feb-04-2016 .

Thanks Ed.

Based on your suggestion I searched in the interpretations from ASME site and found below inquiry and reply. ( Interpretation No. V-10-02)

Question: Is it the intent of Article 4, Mandatory Appendix III that for the examination of a weld in a pipe, the basic calibration block shown in Fig. III-434.2.1(a) is to be used?

Reply: Yes.

 
 Reply 
 
Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1300

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1300
17:42 Feb-04-2016
Re: ToFD for Piping
In Reply to varghese at 16:00 Feb-04-2016 .

It would then "seem" to indicate that the note "e" that you mentioned is a misleading note and in fact they are OK with using a flat plate to confirm coverage. But even the Interpretation is not really clear on that and does not mention the conflict with the note "e".

 
 Reply 
 
Varghese
Varghese
09:25 Feb-05-2016
Re: ToFD for Piping
In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 17:42 Feb-04-2016 .

Yes Ed..I checked the mandatory appendix III in 2010 edition and there is no foot note regarding the block curvature range and III-434.3 states piping curvature requirements as per T-434.3 are not applicable for ToFD technique.(2010 edition)

But in 2013 edition they made a totally contradicting stand about the ToFD blocks for piping ( by the foot note 'e' in fig III-434.2.1(a) and also by stating it clear in III-434.1.7)!!!

Wonder if anyone has a chance to look in the 2015 edition regarding the ToFD block ...machining new blocks for every new edition seems to be costly exercise..

 
 Reply 
 
Erhan Turgut
Erhan Turgut
10:33 Jul-15-2016
Re: ToFD for Piping
In Reply to Varghese at 09:25 Feb-05-2016 .

In the 2015 edition, same condition exists, so it is still an obligation to use a curved block conforming to your diameter to ensure sensitivity under 20''.
And if you have to use a workmanship based acceptance criteria, it is becoming a must to use these holes to set the gain as far as I know.
Now struggling with drilling circumferential holes and it is really not easy to achieve good positioned holes.

 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 805

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
805
15:10 Jul-15-2016
Re: ToFD for Piping
In Reply to Varghese at 12:51 Feb-04-2016 (Opening).

It is better to use holes for TOFD. Notches have many limitations and they give a false idea of thickness coverage. We have used 2 mm side drilled holes in piping and there is no problem. If you need help, please let me know.

 
 Reply 
 
Erhan Turgut
,
Turkey, Joined Jul 2016, 7

Erhan Turgut

,
Turkey,
Joined Jul 2016
7
15:27 Jul-15-2016
Re: ToFD for Piping
In Reply to Anmol Birring at 15:10 Jul-15-2016 .

Could you please tell me which equipment you have used for drilling circumferential holes ? CNC EDM or Water-jet method or anything else ? Or am I checking completely wrong methods to achieve a good result ?

 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 805

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
805
15:37 Jul-15-2016
Re: ToFD for Piping
In Reply to Erhan Turgut at 15:27 Jul-15-2016 .

zoom image

TOFD Cal Block

Just a normal drill. You have to first slice the pipe axially and machine from the side. Hole depth about 25 mm
 
 Reply 
 
Erhan Turgut
,
Turkey, Joined Jul 2016, 7

Erhan Turgut

,
Turkey,
Joined Jul 2016
7
15:53 Jul-15-2016
Re: ToFD for Piping
Thank you for your answer and drawing.
It is the ISO way as I understand, but how we can explain as per the Code ? Do you think AI or Owner should accept such approach.
The problem is a Third Party will check my blocks after drilling.
 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 805

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
805
16:45 Jul-15-2016
Re: ToFD for Piping
In Reply to Erhan Turgut at 15:53 Jul-15-2016 .

They should accept. If they do not, they should give you a valid reason.

 
 Reply 
 
Phil Herman
Sales, - Manufacture of NDT Reference Standards/Test Blocks
PH Tool Reference Standards, USA, Joined Oct 1999, 79

Phil Herman

Sales, - Manufacture of NDT Reference Standards/Test Blocks
PH Tool Reference Standards,
USA,
Joined Oct 1999
79
18:23 Jul-15-2016
Re: ToFD for Piping
In Reply to Erhan Turgut at 15:27 Jul-15-2016 .

High quality calibration blocks containing side-drilled holes (axial and circumferential) are typically machined on CNC or manual milling machines. Great care must be taken in the setup of circ holes to ensure hole locations are correct at one-half of hole length. Use quality drills and reamers held in new collets to ensure concentricity. This will result in holes with smooth walls that are on-diameter and are in the right locations through the wall thickness. A careful peck-drilling process with ample oiling and chip removal will yield the best results. Do not rush the process as broken drills are not easily removed without EDM equipment. Use good metrology practices to verify hole diameter, depth, and location.

Phil Herman
President/CEO
PH Tool Reference Standards

 
 Reply 
 
Manfred R Richter
Consultant,
Richter & Tomasi Ltd., Brazil, Joined Jan 2008, 32

Manfred R Richter

Consultant,
Richter & Tomasi Ltd.,
Brazil,
Joined Jan 2008
32
20:11 Jul-18-2016
Re: ToFD for Piping
In Reply to Erhan Turgut at 15:53 Jul-15-2016 .

Erhan,
hey have to accept once is in according to alternate block indicated in Figure T-434.3-2
(Alternate Calibration Block for Piping) of ASEM Sec. V article 4.

 
 Reply 
 

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