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Fyant
,
Indonesia, Joined Feb 2017, 2

Fyant

,
Indonesia,
Joined Feb 2017
2
05:12 Feb-21-2017
ASTM E1444 - MPI

i don't have standard astm E1444, it will be helpfull if any body can show me para 7.4.4 Dead Weight Chack.

 
 Reply 
 
Hamid Reza
,
Canada, Joined Oct 2016, 68

Hamid Reza

,
Canada,
Joined Oct 2016
68
07:23 Feb-21-2017
Re: ASTM E1444 - MPI
In Reply to Fyant at 05:12 Feb-21-2017 (Opening).

Hi Fyant,

Welcome to ndt.net

From E1444/E1444M - 16e1 (Latest version at the moment)

7.4.4 Dead Weight Check—Yokes and permanent magnets
(when allowed) shall be dead weight checked at intervals as
stated in Table 1. Alternating current and permanent magnet
yokes shall have a lifting force of at least 10 lb [4.5 kg], with
a 2- to 6-in. [50- to 150-mm] spacing between legs. Direct
current yokes shall have a lifting force of at least 30 lb [13.5
kg], with a 2- to 4-in. [50- to 100-mm] spacing between legs,
or 50 lb [22.5 kg], with a 4- to 6-in. [100- to 150-mm] spacing.

From Table 1:

Item: Yoke dead weight check
Maximum Time Between Verification (When the test system is in operation.): 6 months
Paragraph: 7.4.4

2
 
 Reply 
 
Fyant
,
Indonesia, Joined Feb 2017, 2

Fyant

,
Indonesia,
Joined Feb 2017
2
08:52 Feb-23-2017
Re: ASTM E1444 - MPI
In Reply to Hamid Reza at 07:23 Feb-21-2017 .

thank you for share. i'm really appreciate your respon.

permanent magnet yokes shall have a lifting force of at least 10 lb [4.5 kg].
so, correct me if i'am wrong :
1. lifting force of permanent magnet yokes don't have to reach 40lb[18.1 kg] any more.
2. This standard practice may used for verifying lifting force every 6 month related in publishing the calibration certificate.
3. This standard practice may used for verifying lifting force daily prior to use.

what's the different of lifting force with lifting power such as ASME sec.V 2010 article 7, para T-762. Lifting power of yokes.

 
 Reply 
 
Hamid Reza
,
Canada, Joined Oct 2016, 68

Hamid Reza

,
Canada,
Joined Oct 2016
68
09:02 Feb-23-2017
Re: ASTM E1444 - MPI
In Reply to Fyant at 08:52 Feb-23-2017 .

Dear Fitra,

How are you doing?

1. Yes, According to ASTM E1444/E1444M - 16 Edition 1:

7.4.4 Dead Weight Check—Yokes and permanent magnets
(when allowed) shall be dead weight checked at intervals as
stated in Table 1. Alternating current and permanent magnet
yokes shall have a lifting force of at least 10 lb [4.5 kg], with
a 2- to 6-in. [50- to 150-mm] spacing between legs. Direct
current yokes shall have a lifting force of at least 30 lb [13.5
kg], with a 2- to 4-in. [50- to 100-mm] spacing between legs,
or 50 lb [22.5 kg], with a 4- to 6-in. [100- to 150-mm] spacing.

So it seems there is not any requirement for lifting force of 40lb[18.1 kg].

I do not have the older versions of this standard at the moment so I do not
know about the former requirements. These are the older version:

ASTM E1444 / E1444M - 16
ASTM E1444 / E1444M - 12
ASTM E1444 / E1444M - 11
ASTM E1444 - 05
ASTM E1444 - 01
ASTM E1444 - 94A

But I will check them for you as soon as I can get my hands to them!

2. This is related to section 7 of the ASTM E1444/E1444M which is "Quality Control":

7.1 System Performance Verification—The overall performance
of the magnetic particle testing system, including the
equipment, materials, and the lighting environment being used,
shall be verified initially and at regular intervals thereafter. The
required verification intervals are stated in Table 1. Records of
the verification results shall be maintained and retained for the
time period specified in the contract. Establish a system in
accordance with ANSI Z540-1 or ISO 10012-1 for calibration
and certification of all current and voltage measuring devices,
ammeter shunts, timers, lightmeters, gaussmeters, and field
indicators used in verification.

7.4 Equipment Calibration—Magnetic particle testing
equipment shall be checked for performance and accuracy at
the time of purchase and at intervals thereafter as indicated in
Table 1; whenever malfunction is suspected, when specified by
the Cognizant Engineering Organization, or whenever electrical
maintenance that might affect equipment accuracy is
performed.

Yes it is used for Calibration and Certification.

3. Yes, it might be used on a daily basis and I have seen some
procedures requiring it to be tested prior each test!!!


4. Lifting force according to ASME sec.V 2010 article 7, para T-762.

ASME BPVC Section V, 2015 article 7, para T-762 has changed in the 2015 version. You
can see this in the "List of changes in record number order" section, number 11-251.
It says"Changed the existing wording in T-762(a) to clarify the required frequency of yoke lifting
power verification."

It says:

T-762 LIFTING POWER OF YOKES

(a) The magnetizing power of yokes shall be verified
prior to use each day the yoke is used. The magnetizing
power of yokes shall be verified whenever the yoke has
been damaged or repaired.

(b) Each alternating current electromagnetic yoke shall
have a lifting power of at least 10 lb (4.5 kg) at the maximum
pole spacing that will be used.

(c) Each direct current or permanent magnetic yoke
shall have a lifting power of at least 40 lb (18 kg) at the
maximum pole spacing that will be used.

(d) Each weight shall be weighed with a scale from a reputable
manufacturer and stenciled with the applicable
nominal weight prior to first use. A weight need only be
verified again if damaged in a manner that could have
caused potential loss of material.

So, ASME Sec V 2015 version requires daily checks.

According to the latest version of the standard, AC Yokes must
be able to lift 10 lb (4.5 Kg) at maximum pole spacing. As opposed
to ASTM E1444/E1444M 16e1, permanent magnets must have
lifting force of 40 lb (18kg) at maximum pole spacing that will
be used.

The following is from the 2010 version of ASME Sec V, Only "a"
has been changed in the 2015 version:

T-762 Lifting Power of Yokes

(a) Prior to use, the magnetizing power of electromagnetic
yokes shall have been checked within the past year.
The magnetizing power of permanent magnetic yokes shall
be checked daily prior to use. The magnetizing power of
all yokes shall be checked whenever the yoke has been
damaged or repaired.

b, c, d,... the same as 2015

This was changed from the ASME Sec V 1998 edition which says:


(a) The magnetizing force of yokes shall be checked at least
once a year, or whenever a yoke has been damaged. If a yoke
has not been in use for a year or more, a check shall be done
prior to first use.

Also for your information, There is another standard:

EN ISO 9934-3:2015 ,
Non-destructive testing — Magnetic particle testing —
Part 3: Equipment

According to this standard:

4.1 Portable electromagnets (AC)

4.1.1 General

Hand-held portable electromagnets (yokes) produce a magnetic field between the two poles. When
testing according to ISO 9934-1, DC) electromagnets should only be used if agreed at enquiry and
order stages.

Magnetization shall be determined by measuring the tangential field strength, Ht, at the centre of a
line joining the centres of the pole faces of the electromagnet with pole extenders where used. The
electromagnet with a pole spacing, s, is placed on a steel plate as shown in Figure 1. The plate shall
have the dimensions (500 ± 25) mm × (250 ± 13) mm × (10 ± 0,5) mm and shall be of steel conforming
to C22 (1.0402) of EN 10250-2. Periodic functional checks can be carried out either by the method
described above or by a lift test. The electromagnet shall be capable of supporting a steel plate or
rectangular bar conforming to C22 (1.0402) of EN 10250-2 and having a minimum mass of 4,5 kg, with
the magnet poles set at their recommended spacing. The major dimension of the plate or bar shall be
greater than the pole spacing, s, of the electromagnet.

NOTE To lift a steel plate with a mass of 4,5 kg requires a lifting force of 44 N.

This has not been changed since at least 2002.

Also for your information according to ASTM 709E (both 2014 and 2015 version)

20.3.7 Electromagnetic Yoke Lifting Force Check—The
magnetizing force of a yoke (or a permanent magnet) should be
checked by determining its lifting power on a steel plate. See
Table 3. The lifting force relates to the electromagnetic strength
of the yoke.

According to Table 3:

For AC with 2 to 4 in. (50 to 100) mm pole spacing lifting force shall be 10 lb (45 N/4.5 kg)
For AC with 4 to 6 in. (100 to 150 mm) pole spacing no requirement.
For DC with 2 to 4 in. (50 to 100) mm pole spacing lifting force shall be 30 lb (135 N/13.5 kg).
For DC with 4 to 6 in. (100 to 150 mm) pole spacing lifting force shall be 50 lb (225 N/23.0 kg).

This standard has been updated more regularly (there are 24 older versions before 2014) and
I do not have access to older version. I will check them for you as soon as I have access to older
versions.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need me,

Sincerely,
EB

 
 Reply 
 
James Scalf
NDT Inspector,
Global Integrity, Canada, Joined Oct 2012, 273

James Scalf

NDT Inspector,
Global Integrity,
Canada,
Joined Oct 2012
273
14:47 Feb-23-2017
Re: ASTM E1444 - MPI
In Reply to Hamid Reza at 09:02 Feb-23-2017 .

WOW E.B. That is all I have to say regarding this. If he still doesn't get the answer to his question from the level of detail you provided then I fear it would be hopeless to add more LOL...

Cheers,
James

 
 Reply 
 
Hamid Reza
,
Canada, Joined Oct 2016, 68

Hamid Reza

,
Canada,
Joined Oct 2016
68
17:13 Feb-23-2017
Re: ASTM E1444 - MPI
In Reply to James Scalf at 14:47 Feb-23-2017 .

Hi,

I also got my hands to ASTM E1444 1994 edition a:

7.1.5.4 Dead Weight Check—Yokes and permanent magnetics
(when allowed) shall be dead weight tested at intervals as
stated in Table 1. Alternating current yokes shall have a lifting
force of at least 10 lb (45 N), with a 2 to 4-in. (50 to 100-mm)
spacing between legs. Direct current yokes shall have a lifting
force of at least 30 lb (135 N), with a 2 to 4-in. (50 to 100-mm)
spacing between legs, or 50 lb (225 N), with a 4 to 6-in. (100
to 150-mm) spacing.

This changed in ASTM E1444 - 01 to:

7.3.4 Dead Weight Check—Yokes and permanent magnets
(when allowed) shall be dead weight tested at intervals as
stated in Table 1. Alternating current and permanent magnet
yokes shall have a lifting force of at least 10 lb. (4.5 kg), with
a 2 to 6 inch (50 to 150 -mm) spacing between legs. Direct
current yokes shall have a lifting force of at least 30 lb. (13.5
kg), with a 2 to 4-in (50 to 100-mm) spacing between legs, or
50 lb. (22.5 kg), with a 4 to 6-in (100 to 150-mm) spacing.

And hasn't changed ever since. (since ASTM 1444 2016 e1)

 
 Reply 
 
Hamid Reza
,
Canada, Joined Oct 2016, 68

Hamid Reza

,
Canada,
Joined Oct 2016
68
17:28 Feb-23-2017
Re: ASTM E1444 - MPI
In Reply to Hamid Reza at 17:13 Feb-23-2017 .

Oh,

I tracked that lifting force to MIL-STD-1949 1 August 1985 which superceded MIL-M-11472, 24 November 1952 & MIL-I-6868E, 8 March, 1976 and It was the same as the ASTM E1444 94 version.

>>> So I wondered where the 40lb force you mentioned came from!!! I knew that I saw that somewhere. I was able to find the 40lb lifting force in:

ASTM A275 2015 Standard Practice for Magnetic Particle Examination of Steel Forgings

It says:

11.5.7.2 Yoke Qualification—Permitted direct-current electromagnetic
yokes shall have a lifting power of at least 40 lbf
[175 N] at a pole spacing of 3 to 6 in. [75 to 150 mm].

So you will need a 40lbf lifting force for DC current electromagnetic yokes with pole spacing of 3 to 6 inch if you want to carry out MPI testing on Steel Forgings.

Now I can get involved with a new obsession !

 
 Reply 
 
Michel Couture
NDT Inspector,
consultant, Canada, Joined Sep 2006, 851

Michel Couture

NDT Inspector,
consultant,
Canada,
Joined Sep 2006
851
04:28 Feb-25-2017
Re: ASTM E1444 - MPI
In Reply to Hamid Reza at 17:28 Feb-23-2017 .

EB,

Did you check what the Dead Sea scrolls had to say on the subject????

 
 Reply 
 
Hamid Reza
,
Canada, Joined Oct 2016, 68

Hamid Reza

,
Canada,
Joined Oct 2016
68
17:19 Feb-25-2017
Re: ASTM E1444 - MPI
In Reply to Michel Couture at 04:28 Feb-25-2017 .

Dear Michel,

Lol.

I wouldn't hesitate if knew there was something relevant inside those scrolls. ;-)

The only thing related to "magnetism" and "dead sea scroll" I have ever seen was a refrigerator magnet with the picture of those scrolls on it which had a very week lifting force, perhaps in order of 20 grams :-)

Sincerely,
EB

 
 Reply 
 

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