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David
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 13

David

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
13
02:17 Jun-16-2017
NDT International / BINDT

I'm hearing that NDT International training school has been suspended and all certificates issued by them could be affected. Anyone else heard? I can't say as I'm surprised given their reputation

 
 Reply 
 
Ghanta Siva Rajesh
Ghanta Siva Rajesh
10:45 Jun-16-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to David at 02:17 Jun-16-2017 (Opening).

YES IT IS

INFACT THEY ARE FACK

http://www.bindt.org/Certification/pcn-news/

Withdrawal of AQB/ATO

NDT International has had its ATO and AQB status withdrawn with immediate effect at all of its locations and sites:
Chennai
Singapore
Trichy
Cochin
Visag
Mumbai
Kolkata
Including all ad hoc and remote locations.
All candidates who hold PCN certification as a result of training and examinations conducted at any of the above centres will have their certification withdrawn.


THERE ARE MANY FACK CERTIFICATION COMPANIES AROUND, ONLY TIME WILL BRING TEHM OUT

 
 Reply 
 
Guest
Guest
22:32 Jun-16-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Ghanta Siva Rajesh at 10:45 Jun-16-2017 .

This will affect 1000's of candidates.

Bindt are on shakey ground assuming all students guilty.

Surely Bindt's rush to open aqb's in Asia and their obviously very very poor auditing process should be held responsible as well.

Maybe it just a grab by Bindt to secure more exam fees?

I feel sorry for the valid candidates

 
 Reply 
 
G1
NDT Inspector,
Malaysia, Joined May 2010, 12

G1

NDT Inspector,
Malaysia,
Joined May 2010
12
08:42 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Guest at 22:32 Jun-16-2017 .

It is totally unfair for BINDT to penalize the candidates who went passed the examination in their own effort.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Dave
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 13

Dave

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
13
08:56 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to G1 at 08:42 Jun-17-2017 .

I don't know the details but what I hear is that NDT International has been very naughty indeed. I guess BINDt have the impossible job of knowing who passed legitimately and who didn't. It's a terrible situation but the blame has to lay with the cheaters who have/are destroying the scheme

 
 Reply 
 
John
John
09:28 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Guest at 22:32 Jun-16-2017 .

Exam fees for BINDT is very nominal infact very less but these AQB center charges the candidates huge money.

You can't distinguish between the candidates who is legimate and who is not. As decided by BINDT to re-take examination of all candidates who passed from that particular center, is a good move and the candidates should be get refund from NDT International PTE Ltd.

BINDT should put their boots on ground and direct the NDT International to re fund the examination fee to all candidates.

1
 
 Reply 
 
sri
sri
10:03 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to John at 09:28 Jun-17-2017 .

I Believe NDT International started by 2011 now 2017 so for more than 1000's of candidates are out BINDT is doing regular Audit ie Annually all their ATO/AQB do they were paralyzed for past 6 years ??Its really unfair BINDT with draws all candidates certifications who are really professional even BINDT Capability in approving or Auditing is subject to questionable. Moreover there are cases like people certificates been withdrawn from Meena international( Permanently withdrawn ) reappear with NDT International last year now again its been withdrawn can BINDT is reliable certifying body ??? better not to take PCN

Experts please comment your views

 
 Reply 
 
Dave
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 13

Dave

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
13
10:27 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to sri at 10:03 Jun-17-2017 .

Although you make some fair points i disagree.

I am fairly familiar with the BINdT audit process, they check records in accordance with ISO 9001 and their own checklists. I think the problem is BINDT put too much trust in Indian organizations without understanding the culture.

When it was a U.K. Based scheme it was self policing, the issue here seems to be cultural. Wrap it up anyway u want but I think BINDT need to withdraw from such countries

 
 Reply 
 
sri
sri
10:49 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Dave at 10:27 Jun-17-2017 .

Mr.Dave Your right that BINDT have checklist for their audit Process ,I hope BINDT never approve ATO/AQB based on trust my Question or Query to BINDT is they give approval to ATO/AQB for 3 years and audit annually if I am not wrong checked with BINDT website what was out come of previous Audit ie last year if its not satisfactory why BINDT allowed NDTI run till now it means BINDT made Joint Venture with NDTI just to dosh Pounds.

 
 Reply 
 
John
John
11:20 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to sri at 10:49 Jun-17-2017 .

Dave,

Do you think European/Sigaporean culture don't have word like fake, scam or cheating?

It all depends on the person to person, not region or country.

Sri,

You look like you are from NDT International PTE Ltd. off course you will try to defend yourself.

During audit if they are caught doing malpractice, then they have to suffer. How you can differentiate the genuine candidates from fake candidate? Only by re-examination.......

As you said from 2011 onwards NDT International had started giving certificates, who knows how many are genuine and how many are fake??? May be this institute might have escaped by the auditor from past audit and this year it was caught....

Cheating is Cheating it can't be justified by saying I did the cheating from 2011 but I should be punished for 2017 cheating as it was being caught now.. The institute should be penalized by not only banning BINDT, they should be recommended to ASNT for cancelling their ASNT Level III certification also. Hope ASNT certification members also take it seriously.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Gokul Hrishikesh
NDT Inspector, PCN UT Level 3
India, Joined Jul 2013, 73

Gokul Hrishikesh

NDT Inspector, PCN UT Level 3
India,
Joined Jul 2013
73
13:35 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to David at 02:17 Jun-16-2017 (Opening).

I have done my UT level 2 & 3, PAUT from NDT international feels like done a big mistake.
Normaly many choose to do ASNT (providing training and certification under SNT-TC-1A to make some money)
PCN was known to me as a certificate of trust and reliability back then in 2012 and I am permenantly employed in a company who never asked me for a PCN certificate, our work indeed is a proof.. to build up my carier and knowing the intence efforts BINDT had put into it I decided to invest on myself, a PCN (Name of Trust) also ISO 9712 is what I use on my Level 3 stamp.
My aim was to slowly develop skills in RT,PT,MT and get level 3 then do a the BSC with BINDT (I plan to learn and money wise I can save on the excemptions I get from BINDT with the 4 level 3s)

Why did I do it at NDT International?
Was planning to do it from Levender International and heard a news that an ATO is located in India.
Simple because I am from India and that is the nearest ATO.

Did I get any help for passing my examination?
No, I failed to clear PCN 3.2 practical despite of my 7 years experience back then.(Had valid ASNT certificate at that time) I start doubting my own intrigrity in a belief that PCN cant be wrong.
I had to pay money again for re examination and training.
Failed again.... paid again and passed at final attempt in 2012... (note the money I paid for 3.2 alone)
Did my UT level 3 in 2014, spent 15 days studying very hard, passed it.

Do I agree with the decision of withdrawing the certificates by BINDT?
Yes 100%, there are people out there in the field who dont know what they are doing.
DANGEROUS for the intigrity of my job NDT as well as Injustice to so many who earned the certificates and above all the quality of products to final consumers and the saftey concerns

My question to BINDT?
What to do with the money I spent on my certification, because of the intense auditing they do I never predicted PCN will end up like this.

My next step?
I will sit exams from PCN and expect they wont charge anything other than administration costs.
Simply, because I earned my certificates and I am not afraid of appearing it 100 times in even more intense examinations.

Do I feel ashamed as an Indian?
No, there are intilligent people who have morality and there are many wise people in this forum who understands that and personaly I know few of them :)

I still have faith in BINDT and my fellow mates from different parts of the world that together we will make it a good place to live and work.

Success Greets!!


2
 
 Reply 
 
SRI
SRI
13:52 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to John at 11:20 Jun-17-2017 .

John I Agree forgery is forgery even if a single candidate is guilty NDTI shall be scraped same applies to BINDT as their auditors gave constant approval ,as a candidate I look for BINDT approval for ATO in the website & approval from BINDT for those methods certification required .
Besides what happens to those job endorsed by this candidates and procedures approved which is still under use? All subjected to inspection? Employers and Oil companies should think over ASNT or CSWIP other than BINDT issued PCN certifications as BINDT has lapses in their system as well their ATO/AQB

Cheers
Sri
ASNT NDT L3 RT,UT,MT,PT,VT

 
 Reply 
 
Sheshashayi S P
NDT Inspector,
Geecy Vincotte , India, Joined Jul 2016, 3

Sheshashayi S P

NDT Inspector,
Geecy Vincotte ,
India,
Joined Jul 2016
3
15:17 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Gokul Hrishikesh at 13:35 Jun-17-2017 .

To everyone on this forum my request is to keep the countries names involved aside and think!. BINDT made huge money with these AQB's and ATO. Now it is saturated that so many in the NDT Industry have there PCN. This is a new scheme to create a need for a new certification. PCN boomed only brats of the failure of SNT-TC-1A, History repeats,and coming to BINDT were they sleeping all these years? Whom to trust and whom not to trust? God help the 1000's of families who are the victims of this BIGGEST scam.
Sho

1
 
 Reply 
 
Joe Buckley
Consultant, ASNT L-III, Honorary Secretary of BINDT
Level X NDT, BINDT, United Kingdom, Joined Oct 1999, 523

Joe Buckley

Consultant, ASNT L-III, Honorary Secretary of BINDT
Level X NDT, BINDT,
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 1999
523
15:52 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to sri at 10:49 Jun-17-2017 .

N.B. although I'm involved with BINDT I have minimal specific knowledge of this case. My comments are general.

Any audit process must involve a certain amount of Trust, Approvals are of course not based purely in trust, but all any audit process can do is to check that paperwork is in order, the process is robust and well understood, and that an organisation is CAPABLE of doing a good job.

If, when the auditors have left the building, employees deliberately bypass the system, falsify paperwork, take bribes to influence decisions, pass bad parts as good or whatever that is just dishonesty, and it cannot normally be regarded as an audit failure. Auditors have a limited scope, they are not criminal detectives.

I believe BINDT has one of the most thorough qualification systems around, But the system is primarily intended to be secure against candidates cheating. If those entrusted with local management of the process cannot be relied on it is extremely difficult to be confident of any system.

1
 
 Reply 
 
SRI
SRI
16:41 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Sheshashayi S P at 15:17 Jun-17-2017 .

As said Employers & Oil Companies should think over BINDT certifications and Lapses in their system& ATO/AQB there is uncertainty in all ATO/AQB throughout, BINDT will recall any time any number of time .The with drawl of certifications irrespective of the date of certification purely based on current Audit by BINDT and raised non conformance in previous audits is purely to make business as more candidates from ASIA region .

 
 Reply 
 
Chibuzor Okoh
Consultant,
United Kingdom, Joined Jun 2016, 6

Chibuzor Okoh

Consultant,
United Kingdom,
Joined Jun 2016
6
22:45 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to SRI at 16:41 Jun-17-2017 .

It is quite unfortunate that some genuine operators are affected, and I hope BINDT works out a modality to easy the stress of re-certification. However, I think it is high time BINDT got ride of incompetent operators parading PCN Qualifications in the industry, especially those with qualifications from the affected organisations in Asia.

I have had couple of experience with Operators with qualifications in UT but cannot calibrate a UT set or understand the principle of the Operation.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Dave
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 13

Dave

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
13
23:15 Jun-17-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Joe Buckley at 15:52 Jun-17-2017 .

Joe is absolutely correct. Audits will unlikely reveal such activities as people paying to pass. Audits are a review Of documentation (which can be fabricated if the organizations management allow it)

1
 
 Reply 
 
Harendra Latiyan
Harendra Latiyan
00:00 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Dave at 10:27 Jun-17-2017 .

David I anticipate of yourself winning the highest prize in the field of generalization if it would ever exist......but in the present state it is an untreatable disease you are suffering from, please fund (if you have) some research project to find a cure!!!!.....as a mean to diagnosis think once, who you are to generalize on COUNTRIES and WORK CULTURES....... to me your post is absolute nonsense on public forum......
Re the subject of the post, in my view such instances have its origin in dilution of ethics at source which in most cases is known to many but neglected to meet business targets!!!!! this is perhaps qualification as per guidelines combined with project specific procedure/operator qualification is the best approach to ensure the integrity of inspection (it is not the scheme in modern world inclined towards money and fake fame) but unfortunately it cannot be practiced every time.....also I know of couple of instances where responsible staff have compromised under various influences.....irrespective of country and culture ultimate solution lies in strengthening the basic education systems by enhanced focus on moral education and social responsibilities...... I would love to see if for every certification programme at least one day is dedicated to remind/induce such awareness among participants..... some thoughts

 
 Reply 
 
Dave
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 13

Dave

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
13
00:29 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Harendra Latiyan at 00:00 Jun-18-2017 .

Utter drivel that. I'm simply pointing out that maybe BINDT did not fully understand the implications of allowing an Indian based company to expand so fast without having all the control mechanisms in place to protect the scheme. Living in Singapore and working for 5 years in India I base my comments on daily challenges I have faced.

Some of my best friends and work colleagues are Indian and some of them are the most professional L3s I have ever come across. That being said, I stick by my comments, they are based on facts alone and not meant to generalize just simply offer some food for thought on a root cause here

 
 Reply 
 
Noel Hedrian
Canada, Joined Jun 2017, 17

Noel Hedrian

Canada,
Joined Jun 2017
17
03:55 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to David at 02:17 Jun-16-2017 (Opening).

Really good decision by BINDT to save loss of life and property

from the hands of nuts who say that they are PCN qualified especially those who passed from NDT international...Chennai...India.

This is good decision though late.
In fact the organization' management should be jailed for examination frauds and issuing fake certificates to technicians.

In India even ASNT NDT Level II certificates are just issued for money without conducting any examinations.

I think such qualified Indians are hungry from money.... who do fraud in NDT certifications.








 
 Reply 
 
Harendra Latiyan
Harendra Latiyan
09:03 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Noel Hedrian at 03:55 Jun-18-2017 .

Noel Hedrian,
Could you please help me to buy an ASNT NDT Level II certificate from any of MANY supplier you are aware of in INDIA at double the actual cost.........I extend my thanks in anticipation of much appreciated support on this........I agree that such organization shall be punished to the highest extent............but I have an interesting observation that such incidences are good catalysts to reveal framed mentality of many against specific peoples/systems /countries/regions.....

Dave
I must like your response....... I am not here to argue or justify anything......

1
 
 Reply 
 
Rajen
Engineering, NDT Level 3
NDT Inspections , India, Joined Nov 2008, 3

Rajen

Engineering, NDT Level 3
NDT Inspections ,
India,
Joined Nov 2008
3
09:16 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to David at 02:17 Jun-16-2017 (Opening).

Dear All,
NDT International,
I had done my PCN UT, PAUT L3 with this NDT international (lucky I have ASNT L3 cert)
And sad that I had recommended this to some people also,
BINDT has taken the decision to ban this ATO and also withdraw their certification, affecting the candidates who had genuinely taken their exams, some of them have failed and retaken the exams (Paying the extra fees) .
ATO (Authorized Training Organization) means it’s a genuine place to take the exams (supposedly),
The BINDT which has authorized this ATO and was conducting yearly audit on this ATO , suddenly says this ATO is banned for fraud certifications. The ATO had been issuing NDT certs for past 5 years or more
Implying that all the certificates issued are withdrawn if the candidates do not take the re-exam in an another ATO and prove their competence(excellent!!!!!).
My question is ,what if I take the re-exams in the so called ATO’s approved by Bindt and again this SUPER HONEST BINDT will say that the ATO which I took the re-exam is also banned. So again take the re-re-exam!!!! Wow …..
BINDT has been conducting yearly audit on this ATO for past 5 or more years(they have surprise audits also) ,and suddenly after five years(after filling their money vaults) it got woke up and found the non conformance,
I see people supporting BINDT saying that the ATO has forged documents for past 5 years during the audit , like to ask that BINDT auditors are so innocent and competent to audit these forged documents for 5 years that’s SUPER AUDITORS!!!! for you, so with my little understanding if BINDT claims that its auditors has been auditing forged documents for five years , how about the audit conducted by these auditors in other ATO’s , what if these auditors have been auditing forged documents in other ATO’s also,
If an organization could forge documents for five years and convince the auditors , then you should question the auditing body or the auditing procedures. People who are supporting BINDT , there are many certifying organizations or class such as DNV-GL,ISO,BV etc, these bodies have always come out strong against the rules violating organizations immediately if it finds any non conformance (not waiting for 5 years )
So , I confused whether the ATO is SUPER SMART to forge documents or BINDT is SUPER DUMB to audit the forged documents for 5 years ,I think the second would be apt .
Now if the so called Authorized Bodies are under question, what if one fine day the BODY which has audited BINDT would come out and say BINDT has forged documents during audit and hence it has cancelled the certification (may be this is possible)!!!!!!
Hope all the concerned technicians would retake the exam and our SUPER HONEST & GENEROUS BINDT (after filling their money vaults) will reimburse the flight and accommodation cost involved for this RE_EXAM process ,provided the technician passes the re-exam.
To all technician’s and client’s who stick to PCN certs , I think its time to revisit these certifications, and understand the real reasons involved (MONEY) nothing else , these SUPER HONEST BINDT is not concerned about the quality or integrity but only MONEY.
I hope its time to encourage the ISNT’s and other LOCAL NDT certs from local NDT certifying bodies (who still honestly conduct training and exams) ,people should promote the ISNT cert instead of the this MONEY SWINDILING foreign certs .
“And FYI(allegedly true from trustable source) , the people of NDT international is staring another training & certification program called ANSI level 2 in NDT”
“ Come on let’s spend our hard earned money on this training and make the SUPER DUMB organizations to SUPER RICH”

2
 
 Reply 
 
Dave
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 13

Dave

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
13
10:43 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to David at 02:17 Jun-16-2017 (Opening).

Yawn..... another nonsensical, defensive irrelevant reply. Wake up and smell the coffee. Yes, the CB could have done more but the people who cheat and sending the scheme down is the local management companies. The auditing has already been discussed. Bored now, too many silly answers on here

 
 Reply 
 
Dave
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 13

Dave

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
13
10:45 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Harendra Latiyan at 09:03 Jun-18-2017 .

Another attempt at trying to be funny but failed. Leave it alone son. Your boring

 
 Reply 
 
Noel Hedrian
Canada, Joined Jun 2017, 17

Noel Hedrian

Canada,
Joined Jun 2017
17
11:00 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Harendra Latiyan at 09:03 Jun-18-2017 .

Dear Harandra,
I wrote based on my experience. We recently hired a group of 5 technicians in UAE project.
3 of them could not even understand meaning of acceptance criteria.
They even didn't know how to how to measure UV light intensity....does not know root and face of the weld....yet they had UT, PT, MPI, RT and CSWIP certificates....great...

I think certificates are available in shop over there.....

Don't hide your face from reality.
Your own level III from India told me what is happening in India....you all have made shit of NDT.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Steven
Steven
13:46 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Noel Hedrian at 11:00 Jun-18-2017 .

They have been doing this for many, many years and many people knew they were doing it!

 
 Reply 
 
steve
steve
14:04 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to John at 11:20 Jun-17-2017 .

There have even been under cover's go into NDT International likely and sit for exams and to report how they operate.
Agreed ASNT should pull any certificate these same individuals involved have....ASNT already knows as does AWS since they are also an agent....and will for sure respond in kind... If I was an owner or employee I would be looking for another field for sure right now as I don't think the phone will be ringing much next week or in the future...many working in Singapore have these fake certs and are doing inspections everyday.... it needs exposed in papers locally and NDT journals internationally that there are pay for certification cheaters and ban them, their business from working in the industry forever. What a way to go down for them, what did they think, only about $$$

 
 Reply 
 
KUNDU.SATYABRATA
NDT Inspector,
INSPEC, United Arab Emirates (UAE), Joined Jul 2015, 4

KUNDU.SATYABRATA

NDT Inspector,
INSPEC,
United Arab Emirates (UAE),
Joined Jul 2015
4
14:07 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Noel Hedrian at 11:00 Jun-18-2017 .

Dear Noel,

I have the same experience with some Europian. Last year in UAE, Thay are doing some witness & Approval procedure and they are PCN L-3 in ToFD, PA, MPI, DPT.

we are surprised that one of them ask '' show which is the ToFD Image in OMNISCAN eqipMENT''.

That Day we Think also certificates is available in the shop over there.....

This not one, several people we found, they don't know what is UT but they are PCN L-3.


1
 
 Reply 
 
George
George
14:51 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to David at 02:17 Jun-16-2017 (Opening).

I have just done my 10 year renewal of PAUT and Tofd recently in NDT International. The original L2 was done at Lavander.
If I want to re appear for the exam again then it's a money making conspiracy of BINDT. So what is the difference between Bindt and NDT international ????.If NDT international or any candidate done some malpractice , punish them not genuine persons like us.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Harendra Latiyan
Harendra Latiyan
19:06 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Noel Hedrian at 11:00 Jun-18-2017 .

Noel Hedrian,
Your post tells a lot..... the fact is that You do not even know what ASNT NDT Level II is!!!!!! I am on my statement buy me an ASNT NDT level II at any cost.........use all your experience and resources you have

It surprises me how peoples dare to comment on countries, cultures on a public forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1
 
 Reply 
 
Steven Doc
Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy, Egypt, Joined Feb 2011, 187

Steven Doc

Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy,
Egypt,
Joined Feb 2011
187
19:56 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Harendra Latiyan at 19:06 Jun-18-2017 .

Harendra,
People are commenting on the Indian NDT situation based upon experience. As someone involved with Indian NDT Technicians for over 27 years I am not surprised at this development but also recognise that some of the best Technicians I came across were also Indian. India is not alone in the manipulation of Certification Schemes, however the scale does appear to be larger, based upon my experience. For some reason NDT is seen as an easy ticket to the Gulf countries and perhaps a better lifestyle.
The ATO/ AQB's are duty holders and have responsibilities to the scheme members. If they are not serving the scheme members in a positive way the appropriate actions must be taken. I fully support the BINDT in this instance.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Kumar
NDT Inspector,
India, Joined Nov 2014, 8

Kumar

NDT Inspector,
India,
Joined Nov 2014
8
20:47 Jun-18-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to George at 14:51 Jun-18-2017 .

Hello all,

one request for all...

fellow Indians don't defend like nothing happening in our country....

non-Indian fellows don't blame like only in India such things are happening.... (i agree the % is more comparing to other locations & i feel bad for that)

Being one of the victim by holding one of my certification from the named AQB/ATO am not worrying about the decision made by BINDT and no one need to worry who passed genuinely... we can fight for cost free re-examination practically that's what we can do!!

and we need BINDT to send their personnel to monitor the examinations... by doing this we can get assurance that such things won't happen next time... and we have the right to know, BINDT should publish the reason for this action with proofs on their website.. simply writing very serious non-conformity is not acceptable!!!!

if anyone in this forum who has a voice in BINDT should escalate any good suggestion which rise here..

suggestions are welcome no arguments please!

Thanks,
Kumar

1
 
 Reply 
 
PK
NDT Inspector,
Saipem, India, Joined Mar 2016, 2

PK

NDT Inspector,
Saipem,
India,
Joined Mar 2016
2
05:58 Jun-19-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Kumar at 20:47 Jun-18-2017 .

The candidates writes exam with trust on BINDT and not with NDTI. We believe the certificate is from BINDT. They gave approval to the examination center. So do you say that it is wrong trusting BINDT in first place. Also its is not fair to say they cannot find who is genuine. Who's inability is this?

We know about false call. In exams one false the candidate is disqualified. Consider This is also false call. Its is like BINDT saying i cannot differentiate relavent and irrelavent indication. So i consider the complete joint is repair. Cut out and re weld. The scenario is same.

Also there are many people who are approved by major clients like ARAMCO, SHELL, BP. Etc. Do you say that they also qualified wrongly.

My suggestion is simple. People who never make mistake shouldnt be affected. And also the hype created by the market on PCN made everyone to choose the course. Not everyone financially stable to study in UK. Is market is ready to give same value for ASNT equal to PCN ? Then i better choose to go for ASNT instead of PCN.

Dave,

For your kind notification, it doesn't deal with country or region. I have seen candidates qualified from UK organisation who doesn't know to connect probe with wedges. So the knowledge depends with people and not with country.

And the decision by BINDT is unacceptable, we are ready to go for re exam, who will bare the cost for trusting BINDT. What if that institute where i take re exam banned in future, do we need to keep on writing exams paying fees until BINDT vault is filled up with innocent people money.

guys in this forum, i welcome all your suggestions, anyone could come up on suggestion with innocent people who got affected?

 
 Reply 
 
Gokul Hrishikesh
NDT Inspector, PCN UT Level 3
India, Joined Jul 2013, 73

Gokul Hrishikesh

NDT Inspector, PCN UT Level 3
India,
Joined Jul 2013
73
08:04 Jun-19-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Noel Hedrian at 11:00 Jun-18-2017 .

Dear Friends!

There is a saying "one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel"
BINDT has taken the best decision to hold the stance.. by removing all the rotten apples to keep the other apples safe.

I dont see a problem here with BINDT... NDT International has filled the pockets from many angles.
BINDT being such a big system has been fooled

I would sugget the clients to get a proficency test done for each technicians prior to work regardless of the certification they hold, regardless of what country they are!
Only a practical test can judge a technician's ablity.

Kind Regards,

2
 
 Reply 
 
Abbas Zoher Bombaywala
NDT Inspector
Free Lance, India, Joined Jul 2007, 92

Abbas Zoher Bombaywala

NDT Inspector
Free Lance,
India,
Joined Jul 2007
92
13:52 Jun-19-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Gokul Hrishikesh at 08:04 Jun-19-2017 .

Decision by BINDT is correct. The people who dont know what they are doing shouldn't be out there doing inspection and putting other peoples life at risk. But I think BINDT should allow re-examination for all such candidates at free of cost. So that people who took examination fairly are not affected. I know few people in saudi arabia who has pcn level 3 and dont know anything about the method. Pcn market will effect due to such decision.
Regarding strict auditing I dont agree with that because documents can be easily created and audit can be sucessfull. They should implement rather a better quality plan for examination. There are many other ways to cruitinze the examination and practical test.


Regards

1
 
 Reply 
 
Steve Paul
Steve Paul
22:47 Jun-19-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Abbas Zoher Bombaywala at 13:52 Jun-19-2017 .

Hi All,

I believe the words here are sustainability and reputation, any certification scheme is only as good as its reputation with industry, which has made PCN sustainable over the last decades. The PCN certification scheme under the jurisdiction of BINDT has served industry and its industrial members well for many years and has a robust audit system to ensure compliance. I do not believe any audit system can ensure compliance if ATO's and AQB's are determined to cheat the system. That is why after numerous accusations secret shoppers were used to uncover the truth and depth of abuse of the certification scheme, this type of evidence can take time to gather. In order to police the scheme I believe this process needs to continue without national/race focus across all ATO's and AQB's. The decision is late and yes, there maybe some who did gain the certification legitimately in accordance with scheme requirements at NDT International, but, a line has to be drawn and lessons have to be learned on both BINDT's part and also a reflection needs to take place across remaining ATO's and AQB's as we all want sustainability and to feel proud of the certifications we hold. BINDT has taken the right decision for its future sustainability and reputation.

 
 Reply 
 
Dave
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 13

Dave

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
13
23:29 Jun-19-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Steve Paul at 22:47 Jun-19-2017 .

Steve Paul is spot on. A logical and correct post.

Completely agree

 
 Reply 
 
Sri
Sri
02:03 Jun-20-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Kumar at 20:47 Jun-18-2017 .

BINDT claims they couldn’t discriminate between legitimate certificates and Invalid certificates if so how do they claim the candidates from other ATO are legitimate? by withdrawal of certificate irrespective of the date of certification they had made a strong statement to all Oil companies and Employers that BINDT is not in position to be reliable certification body in future and thereafter .

As employer here after irrespective of ATO/AQB we had recommended owner –Petr…s for other certification.

And my advice to those legitimate candidates who put their hard work money and effort to gain this certification better think over other certification in near future no re -examination as there is no certainty in BINDT certification body they can withdraw your certifications put you in a position that you are fraud even after 10 years .

 
 Reply 
 
Dave
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 13

Dave

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
13
09:40 Jun-20-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
http://www.bindt.org/Certification/pcn-news/
 
 Reply 
 
Cameron Sinclair
Cameron Sinclair
14:48 Jun-20-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Dave at 09:40 Jun-20-2017 .

There is a lot of misinformation being spread surrounding this issue. Can I suggest that you refer to BINDT's website for definitive statements of truth. BINDT had to go well beyond the requirements of its own quality system (which goes beyond the requirements of BS EN ISO 9712) at considerable cost and effort to detect this malpractice by NDT International. Having discovered that processes were not being followed, and evidence was being fabricated, how could BINDT not void all relevant certificates? The PCN scheme is governed by, and is there to serve, industry and it was a panel decision to do what BINDT have done: i.e. industry decided. I anticipate that industry will see this issue for what it is and that the PCN scheme will recover from the damage done by NDT International and will be stronger as a result.

 
 Reply 
 
Dave
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 13

Dave

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
13
15:19 Jun-20-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 14:48 Jun-20-2017 .

Thank you to Mr Sinclair. completely agree

 
 Reply 
 
ken
ken
01:47 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to David at 02:17 Jun-16-2017 (Opening).

CONSUMERS ARE PAYING A PRICE FOR BINDT FAILURE.

PCN is an expensive, restrictive, control freak system. No matter how good you are, you must pay a high price to attend their training, controlled and approved by BINDT. It is a must. They even have cameras in their centres. You are NOT ALLOWED to just apply for exams and take exams. BINDT cannot run away from a huge responsibility when failures occur.

BINDT wants money and thus gives approval to so many centres. I have said before that fraud will happen sooner or later about 3 years ago but someone just shut me up due to the fact I have no evidence. Such practices creates fraud and it had happened before, happening now for BINDT case and will happen again and that is NOTHING NEW in the "approved centre schemes" from BINDT. But BINDT did not do anything to close the gap despite previous fraud in the education and training industry. THE FACT is that BINDT approved NDT International from 2011 till 2017 (six years) and only found fraud now shows a failure in BINDT system and it can go on undetected for years. Even BINDT cannot tell when it happen and thus they want to withdraw all certificates from 2011.

Thus nobody can say 100% that all PCN certificates out there are good enough.

All the approved centres represent BINDT, approved by BINDT, audited by BINDT. We consumers see them as BINDT only regardless. Consumers pay a god dam expensive price for PCN. Now under NDT international I heard 8000 certificates will be invalidated IMMEDIATELY. Can you believe it?!! Is it fair to those making their bread and butter from this?

If BINDT is fair and ethical, they should arrange something for all the certificate holders and not just "withdraw" them. Telling them to just take exams within two months with maximum of one resit is unfair to them. If you are certified three years ago and did not do much work, can you pass by walking into a test centre today with no refresher or re-study? Obviously NO!! No field practitioner can pass exams in such short notice. What about those that did 5 methods? They may not even get time to schedule exams in 2 months. Those that paid a high price and relied on this for bread and butter, is it fair to them? They do not get served English steak or fish and chips for their meals. They may be working under a hot sun in Singapore, middle east etc...

Thus BINDT is not taking responsibility for their actions and pass the ball to the poor consumers and does it in a hasty manner.

BINDT audit their centers every year. Why was it not detected since 2011. Is it not BINDT failure?!!! Should BINDT not take responsibilities?!!!

Greatest irony, according to BINDT website, BINDT did not discover this but was a result of complaints. So now I question the quality of ALL BINDT centres and the certification.

To truly restore quality and confidence, BINDT should withdraw all certificates globally and ask all to go to BINDT and take exams directly from them to prove to the world that no more unreliable certificates are out there.

To me BINDT and PCN certification is in question. PCN no longer holds a "strong endorsement" of competence and BINDT system is proven to be not fool proof.



1
 
 Reply 
 
ken
ken
02:02 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to ken at 01:47 Jun-21-2017 .

Reading through all of the posting. I conclude:

Looks like you can get PCN certificate costing lots of time and money and end up with nothing.

Re-taking exams can also be useless if a test centre is later found to be an issue.

I think sticking to taking ASNT Level III exams are a safer path. Putting aside all the debates on merits, at least the certificate I got is honoured till expiry.

 
 Reply 
 
Steven Doc
Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy, Egypt, Joined Feb 2011, 187

Steven Doc

Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy,
Egypt,
Joined Feb 2011
187
02:02 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to ken at 01:47 Jun-21-2017 .

No offence Ken, but that reads like someone with a huge hard on against PCN & BINDT. I stopped reading half way down.

 
 Reply 
 
ken
ken
02:14 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Steven Doc at 02:02 Jun-21-2017 .

Thank you for the sweeping statement. noted

1
 
 Reply 
 
Chris Wylie
Chris Wylie
05:41 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 14:48 Jun-20-2017 .

Cameron I appreciate the strong decision from BINDT and message to all ATO/AQB that their approval can be withdrawn and their candidate’s as well irrespective of time of certification and I strongly recommend BINDT shall consider the valid candidates to keep alive meritorious of PCN certifications .

 
 Reply 
 
Deb Goutam,
Deb Goutam,
06:20 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to ken at 02:02 Jun-21-2017 .

BINDT is doing such type behavior (i.e. NDT personnel who passing from NDTL) with certificate holders means anytime they can withdrawal or band the certificates. They also have minimum responsibility , every ATO/AQB always inform to BINDT particular NDT course details like when course start, date of exam and how many candidates attaint with name. For this each and every candidate pay Levy to BINDT per method. So, BINDT now each and every course schedule but they are they are believe only their audit. And after six year end BINDT management have certainly declare their final dictions to all certificate canceled who passing from NDTL. Now, BINDT said whoever wise or who need continue their certificate go through other ATO/AQB. But they don’t give any guarantee , may be other AQB/ATO will band in future. Then go further means this is nothing but business tactics of professional organization.
As per ISO-9712, NDT Certificate does not authorize the certificate holder, the authority can be given by employer only.
So, why we go for PCN which too costly, all company can arrange their own arrangement as per their job requirement and the guide line as the ISO-9712. They can arrange their own set-up for qualifying the NDT personnel’s. If you go through the any agency or agent they should have minimum qualification arrangement for qualifying the NDT personnel in particular method.

 
 Reply 
 
Ken
Ken
06:38 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Deb Goutam, at 06:20 Jun-21-2017 .

I fully agree with you Deb. After all these events, I now conclude its not worth going to BINDT/PCN. One method at level II will cost you more than $3000 AUD and its within a narrow scope of that method too. Really costly but its ok if you get what you paid for after passing the exams. In the end of the day, things can just disappear at the stroke of a pen and you are left high and dry.

Who dare to say which centre 100% not at risk unless you go o BINDT directly.

Its hard earned money and I would not bet on this game whereby I have no control no say and my certificate can be revoked anytime.

1
 
 Reply 
 
PK
PK
08:28 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Steven Doc at 02:02 Jun-21-2017 .

yes may be you would have stopped reading half way from where he said they should withdraw all certificated from BINDT and to be fare enough re-examine all.

OK lets be neutral, affected people ready to take exam, what is the assurance that BINDT woke up again after decades and saying all the certificate from the XXX institution will be with drawn, so lets BINDT give confirmation statement that these are the institute we shall write exam and shall not be withdrawn anytime in future.

we all say that NDTI is the institute affected. there are certain institute IN UK certified people without proper experience. Why cant BINDT find them and take proper action. BINDT doesn't need "secret shoppers" (the term they mention) to do this. i have seen many candidates certified from UK doesn't know the choice of probe. i recommend BINDT to find those particular institute and cancel the accreditation and also to withdraw all people who did on that institute in UK. if they do so it is an bold decision and fare enough, also remember who all posted in this forum saying "BINDT has taken bold decision" should maintain the same after this even if their certificate has been withdrawn.

and also, as all in this forum said. To maintain the quality of NDT and for safety concern please do re- evaluate all the job done from 2011 to 2017. if you can do this ofcourse i agree you are concern with the safety and quality of market.

because of BINDT inability why should innocent people getting affected.

1
 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
08:28 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Mats at 15:09 Jun-21-2017 .

This BINDT withdrawal drama is a purely money making exercise. When NDT International is willing to arrange the exams at free of cost why not BINDT give the same at free of cost. Being a non profitable organisation and BINDT is so much worried about Industrial safety, why dont they offer this exercise at free of cost. I suspect this game as a million pound scam. Do BINDT doesnt understand the conditions of various employees working on site with their qualification withdrawn and which create a huge impact on the projects of big oil and gas players.

well done BINDT. Good game. for sure 1 million will be on your packet in the sluggish market.

How to start an organisation like BINDT??

1
 
 Reply 
 
Dave
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 13

Dave

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
13
08:40 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
There are very few sensible and logical posts on here. I would suggest people read Posts from "Steve Paul" and "Cameron Sinclair" if you want to understand the situation. You can of course keep burying your heads in the sand and ignoring the FACTS and real situation and keep talking utter drivel. It's a free world
As they say.

Incredible how few people are actually acknowledging the reality and where the real blame lies.

1
 
 Reply 
 
PK
PK
08:54 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Dave at 08:40 Jun-21-2017 .

Dave,

we completely understand the situation.

of course BINDT is burying their head in the sand and ignoring the FACTS that they are not responsible for their certificate they issued 6 years? do you deny the fact the certificates are not fully controlled by BINDT. they all the certificates must be withdrawn.

of course BINDT is burying their head in the sand and ignoring the FACTS that there is no such malpractice going on in UK?

1
 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
09:08 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Dave at 08:40 Jun-21-2017 .

Do you know is there any provision in the requirements of ISO17024 and ISO9712 to withdraw all the certificates issued?
When the BINDT system is robust in auditing (every year all the training and examination centres) then what BINDT was doing in the past 7 years. Do you think all the auditors are competent???
If so, they dont see any system lapses even though it is a sample exercise???

BINDT allow the organisations to run fast and they want to put a break to make money. As long as professionals like you gentlemen available in the market BINDT will loot Indian market again and again.

The purpose of forming BINDT and UKAS is to protect the interest of UK and not Middle east, far east, or India. Then in that case why they need to enter into Indian market??? Let ISNt handle the same in India. Let SAC handle in singapore. Let Dubai Accreditation council handle UAE. The respective government owned CB's handle their personnel certification.

1
 
 Reply 
 
RAGUPATHY
RAGUPATHY
09:09 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Dave at 08:40 Jun-21-2017 .

I agree with Mr. Doug Wyile. I am a PCN Holder & working currently in abroad. Now BINDT has withdrawn my certifications. My questions are below.

1. I have been working for 4.5 yrs with PCN. Would like to ask BINDT is it wrong.
2. If you want to know my competence on what ever the projects i have worked for, i would ask BINDT to check for my performance in all the projects.
3. BINDT has withdrawn a bunch of certifications including MINE. I don't want to pay the money for re-exam. Is BINDT ready for accepting with out the charge.

1
 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
09:14 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to PK at 08:28 Jun-21-2017 .

well done PK i strongly agree with you. Precisely DO BINDT have the guts to touch UK training organisations explicitly TWI, Argyl Ruane, Lavender etc.

No they dont. TWI takes 6 months to issue the results. BINDT will wait and watch and clap. If any Indian does They raise an invoice for the delay.

1
 
 Reply 
 
sri
sri
09:27 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to PK at 08:54 Jun-21-2017 .

Dear PK please don't respond to ignormous comments better write to BINDT claiming your legitimacy hopefully BINDT will look into it.

 
 Reply 
 
madhankumar
madhankumar
09:29 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Harendra Latiyan at 19:06 Jun-18-2017 .

There is no Rights to stop from longer period. BINDT has to ban all over the world. Due to their inefficient policy, auditing and management. I am going to send mail to BINDT, if there is no proper responsible, going to take in court legally.

 
 Reply 
 
Oni
Oni
10:07 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to sri at 09:27 Jun-21-2017 .

Can I know the NDT qualification of Head of Certifications BINDT

Can anybody answer

 
 Reply 
 
Rolf Diederichs
Director,
NDT.net, Germany, Joined Nov 1998, 608

Rolf Diederichs

Director,
NDT.net,
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
608
10:11 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 14:48 Jun-20-2017 .

Download BINDT OFFICIAL STATEMENT

Dear Cameron,

Thank you for speaking on behalf of BINDT.

I am attaching the official statement that you mentioned in your post.

Rolf
 
 Reply 
 
Oni
Oni
10:17 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to madhankumar at 09:29 Jun-21-2017 .

In recommendation of BINDT to NDT International only every one studies there. All of a sudden how can BINDT Withdraw all the certificates. The other Institutes accredited by BINDT also may face the same issue in future.

The periodically auditing their institutes. Is BINDT dont have control of the certificate they issue. this creates panic with all the personals certified by BINDT.

I have visited NDT International every thing was done as per nomes only. This proves BINDT withdrwal drama is purely a money making exercise.

 
 Reply 
 
VICKY
VICKY
10:48 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Oni at 10:07 Jun-21-2017 .

The NDT qualification of Head of Certifications BINDT BA(hons)

I express my strongest condemnation and protest against the BINDT for withdrawn of PCN Certificates from PCN Holders and re-examination for those who had completed their PCN in NDT International which has accredited by BINDT.

I strongly condemn the banned against the NDT International and PCN holder for their re-examination, in my view, BINDT had taken a wrong decision against the issue of NDT International and PCN holders, Why because as per the BINDT code of conduct for approval of NDT training organisation, the BINDT has auditing the NDT training organisation for their quality which needs to meet as per the BINDT Code of Conduct and then they were accrediting the Institute for PCN training and certification. And the BINDT were appointing a lead Audit person to audit the training centre, for every assessment year and reassessment were done. So why all PCN holders who completed their PCN from NDT International need to write re-examination, the BINDT has examined their test papers after that only BINDT has issued their PCN certificate. So on this issue, BINDT has done a huge mistake and they you not have any rights to withdraw the certificates from PCN holders with any conformance from the PCN Holders without prior notification.

And the PCN certificate was printed and issued by the direct BINDT organisation in UK by auditing the examination papers and test marks of the students.

BINDT, Why you are withdrawing the certificate were issued from EN473 onwards, so if you found any mistake in recent audit you may look on recent certificate holders. BINDT should look on this issue and you may process for re-examination on their certification renewal time, so that could fine for PCN holder who got their certificates.

Why because most of the people were working and they were on some projects so suddenly if you say your PCN certificate had been barred, how they can feel upon this issue and how they can write re-examination.

So we strongly urge the BINDT organisation to reconsider its action and cancel the withdrawn of the PCN certificate from PCN holder who has completed their PCN through NDT International.

And kindly consider the re-examination, can process at the time of certification renewal time.

 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
11:00 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Rolf Diederichs at 10:11 Jun-21-2017 .

Mr.cameron is the CEO of BINDT. Obviously he has to support BINDT

1
 
 Reply 
 
vicky
vicky
11:02 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to doug wyile at 08:28 Jun-21-2017 .

I did spend whole day to come to conclusion for myself. Certification is a big business and BINDT is biggest player in this. Market needs is ISO 9712 not BINDT. What is the guarantee that BINDT will not do the same with other institute. It's harassment to NDT seekers for BINDT's fault.

If it was case, why BINDT gave them certificate and why did they approve International NDT after 40 different audits? For their incompetence, they can not declare, all candidates incompetent. We have enough reasons not to bend and finish their market if they are destroying us.

Now we are going to assess candidates based on our own written practices before hiring.

 
 Reply 
 
Cameron Sinclair
Cameron Sinclair
11:09 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Oni at 10:17 Jun-21-2017 .

A bit more record-straightening:
- PCN takes only a very small part of the fee that people pay for their examinations. It's called a levy. The AQB (e.g. NDT International) takes the majority of the fee as they do the work.
- This is not a money-making experience. BINDT has gone to a lot of cost and effort to uncover this issue and BINDT recognises the significant financial risk it has taken in doing the right thing.
- BINDT is a victim too, as well as the certificate holders, their employers and the end-users (the fabricators/owners of the plant and equipment).
Questions:
- Are those people, making the most vociferous complaints, entirely innocent or did they pay 'top dollar' for a 'guaranteed pass' and have now been found out?
- If they are competent, why are they worried - surely their employer and/or customers will allow them to continue to work if they are competent?

 
 Reply 
 
oni
oni
11:18 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to VICKY at 10:48 Jun-21-2017 .

I clearly agree to your point

BINDT do not care about its certification Holders. All they want is make money out of it.

If these suspended persons write their re-exam and passed their exam, will BINDT revoke the withdrawal of NDT International. No they will just make money out of it. After all is done, they will find another institute to withdraw.

It is better to go for ASNT than PCN. We will be more safe

 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
11:31 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 11:09 Jun-21-2017 .

I got the info that BINDT use to charge for ATO audit fee, AEC audit fee, AQB audit fee for all the branches every year. Stage 1 audit fee, stage 2 audit fee for all the branches. In addition the accommodation, flight fare, etc. will be taken care by individual organisations. All the above fee has to be added with PCN levy. I got the info from all the ATO/AQB's in India that for 2 mandays audit BINDT use to charge 6 manday audit charges (2 days pre prepration / 2 days post prepartion) and also lot of follow up visits with 4 mandays billing. So all the ATO's spending very huge money in the form of audits.

This audit fee is little for UK bodies. Indian ATO/AQB owners are crying ie. all are working for BINDT. I heard the same situation for African bodies also. Lot of african bodies under PCN is going to close because of this issue. When BINDT is charging very high for audits and I assume the audit will be very robust in nature. Having conducted Robust audits (for 7 years , 30 rounds - information provided by NDT International) BINDT is fail to understand the system from 2011 to 2017.
PCN Levy was charged already to the candidates so can you dont charge now again sothat candidates and indstry will get the benefit out the same.
BINDT is a non profitable body with the aim of not making the money so kindly can you do this un necessary exercise without PCN Levy

1
 
 Reply 
 
Ram
India, Joined Jun 2017, 1

Ram

India,
Joined Jun 2017
1
11:47 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Oni at 10:17 Jun-21-2017 .

BINDT has put the lives of 1000s of candidates who have done certification through their approved AQB at stake.What guarantee that the same situation would not repeat for the centers which are recommended for taking up Re-examination.
It is high time that the client companies look for an alternative to these certification.It would be appreciable to validate an individual through his/her on job performance rather than relying on certifications.

 
 Reply 
 
RAGUPATHY
RAGUPATHY
12:03 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Ram at 11:47 Jun-21-2017 .

zoom image
Please go through the attachments !!!
 
 Reply 
 
Oni
Oni
12:14 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Ram at 11:47 Jun-21-2017 .

Most of my colleague working in my company are certified by NDT International only. Companies can easily identify the skill of its employees. If they don’t have skills they would have sent them home.

As you said the companies should depend on the job performance then certificate.

If NDT International don’t follow its rules properly, these guys would not have got the skills which they have now.

I think the problem is clearly with BINDT.

 
 Reply 
 
alex
South Africa, Joined Jun 2017, 1

alex

South Africa,
Joined Jun 2017
1
12:28 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to doug wyile at 11:00 Jun-21-2017 .

It is very unfair about BINDT decision to with draw all the PCN certificates who are studied in the NDT international organization. From the day one NDT International is monitored by BINDT you are the persons who auditing the NDT international with your experienced auditors but today you saying that NDT international is withdrawn.
As discussion is going now it clearly states that BINDT will approve an organization run their business make large number of money and they them self withdraw the organization and starts a new one.

 
 Reply 
 
Cameron Sinclair
Cameron Sinclair
12:41 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Ram at 11:47 Jun-21-2017 .

Given what has been uncovered by BINDT's 'secret shopper' programme, BINDT will continuously improve it. If you have obtained your PCN certification by illegitimate means, you will eventually be found out. Alternatively, if other AQBs are undertaking malpractice, and you obtained your PCN certification through one such AQB, then you may become a victim of their malpractice.
We will 'clean-up' the PCN scheme and we will punish 'the rogues' and, yes, there will be some innocent parties caught-up in it. Sorry to them.
I anticipate that other certification bodies will follow suite. Otherwise how do they know that their systems are completely 'clean'? How would anyone know? Of course, if you've been benefitting from and providing a market for this malpractice, you will know who the rogue AQBs are. Not all PCN AQBs, maybe?

 
 Reply 
 
Ken
Ken
13:02 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to RAGUPATHY at 12:03 Jun-21-2017 .

Thank you for the post. Great information for those guys loosing their certification or those finding alternatives with greater protection.

My simple suggestion to all, learn a lesson from this issue. Understand BINDT standpoint as they have their rights to do so but make a wise decision in future. What is lost cannot come back because we are not in control and have no say. We can only make some noise here.

I would choose ASNT Level III (which I am certified) over such schemes because:
1. Its a computer based exams that is controlled in such a way that it is impossible to claim fraud or victim.
2. It is direct exams from ASNT. There is no AOB or whatever to blame.
3. Very much less costly.

As wisely said by Mr. Sinclair, why worry if you are competent:
4. So you need not pay a heavy price for training, you are allowed to take exams based on your competence and need not attend a costly mandatory accredited training.
5. And your employer would accept you as long as you can proof competence.

That would be my preference.

Fortunately my career, job, income is not affected by this saga. I feel sorry for those that are affected. I came out strongly earlier because I know it was really very tough for those guys getting their certification in the first place and needing it for their bread and butter. I just felt sorry for them. That's all.

Just sharing my thoughts.

Good Luck

 
 Reply 
 
Someshwar
,
United Arab Emirates (UAE), Joined Jun 2017, 1

Someshwar

,
United Arab Emirates (UAE),
Joined Jun 2017
1
13:18 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Ken at 13:02 Jun-21-2017 .

The very first failure by BINDT that they haven't conducted audits periodically,they have to disclose all audit results immediately
Real competitive personnel are affected by this unfair action bBINDT
Let ALL THE VICTIMS STAND ON ONE AND FILE CASES AGAINST BINDT.
This may be political game by BINDT to increase the qualified personnel in Britain

 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
13:43 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 12:41 Jun-21-2017 .

sir kindly do the secret shopper exercise for UK bodies first. clean them first and come for the rest. Kindly you may go as a participant to malaysia and for sure without showing/ seeing the probe you will get UT 3.1,3.2,3.8,3.9 and RT,MT,PT with no time by just paying the money. But this PCN business in malaysia is well known to everybody in the far east market and quite unfortunately what BINDT has done for that. Are you dare to take action against Argyl ruane for this.
I feel either your ATO/AQB/AEC system is having a flaw or system may be robust but BINDT is having a motive to make money in this process. On both the case it is not acceptable.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Deb Goutam,
Deb Goutam,
13:55 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to doug wyile at 13:43 Jun-21-2017 .

Dear All affected Personnel,

I will request all NDT Personnel affected for their certificate and their service also affected their family, they only go for re-test if BINDT allow only the free of cost because all of you already paid Levis to BINDT. Why you pay Levi 2nd time. As I know there no AQB/ATO ready to take only re-examination because there no profit or very minimum profit. If, you have confidence you’re won knowledge, experience and ability. You should convinced your company or your client’s.

Other suitable option BINDT need to open there branchs those countries where number of candidate more.

 
 Reply 
 
Mats
Engineering,
n.n., Joined Jun 2017, 1

Mats

Engineering,
n.n.,
Joined Jun 2017
1
15:09 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to ken at 01:47 Jun-21-2017 .

Great Ken, You are on fact so no one would have anything to say rather than to accept the facts and failure of BINDT rather than NDT international. BINDT cannot get away pretending clean to the industry. I would like to add some more here to prove BINDT is an incompetent organization run by a bunch of incompetent individuals who don’t have any idea about the NDT Industry.

With the constant update of defensive publications BINDT have to publish online to pretend clean, it should be understood that BINDT had their share earnings through the allegations that were happening. Things went wrong with equal dividends and BINDT having the authority upper hand is having the mask to appear legitimate to the Industry. Doing so they have made a wrong decision now, which is no surprise due to their incompetency now try to defend & stick to the same. From the decision to revoke certificates ever since BINDT was approved we should understand that their robust audit team for the Qualification and subsequent audits in these years were only to enjoy Indian dishes & coffee.

We need to accept that BINDT is not going to change their decision at all but their real image should appear in front of the industry make a living from . It’s a big scam ended taking away bread and butter of innocents as we all know their fee structures and the amount of time & hard work that needs to obtain their certification. And in the end I do not have any control to my certifications obtained which can be disqualified anytime due to BINDT’s own system failure or any false allegations which is all an opportunity for BINDT to make money and they for sure will come up with similar claims with their ATO/AQB’s.

The cunning behaviour of BINDT again is that they are trying to earn another huge millions of pound by giving an option to resit for examination with another AQB/ATO, which is not practical in a short duration of 2 months as Ken pointed out. There is no guarantee that certificate holders from different ATO’s are competent and BINDT would not guarantee that as well due to their certificates, if so then my question is why do to disqualify all certifications? The employer and industry would automatically segregate or report to BINDT now & then identified in the field the individuals who obtained certifications by paying money.

Lets not forget the question from the Industry of who shall take responsibility of the Inspections that were completed in these years by BINDT’s claim of incompetent individuals holding certifications. No surprise if BINDT comes up with a publication “With deep regret to help end users maintain high levels of safety and reliability we request you to start digging out buried pipeline, remove insulated process lines, pull out equipment’s from sea beds and dismantle offshore structures since we have discovered widespread and systemic breach of ethics and serious malpractice in the case of NDT International PTE Ltd”

There is no worth in repeated spending with the resitting option as the Industry would now start to reject BINDT certificate holders due to this allegation since there is no any guarantee that remaining ATO/AQB’s are to BINDT’s wishes and they too do not take any accountability in the later.

 
 Reply 
 
Peter P.
Consultant, ASNT MT/PT Level 3, Quality Manager
SharingNDT, USA, Joined Jan 2017, 80

Peter P.

Consultant, ASNT MT/PT Level 3, Quality Manager
SharingNDT,
USA,
Joined Jan 2017
80
19:57 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to David at 02:17 Jun-16-2017 (Opening).

Does anybody know what the revokation policy is on BINDT certifications?

I know that ASNT's policy is that suspensions must go to an ethical boards committee.

 
 Reply 
 
Mats
,
United Arab Emirates (UAE), Joined Jun 2017, 1

Mats

,
United Arab Emirates (UAE),
Joined Jun 2017
1
22:58 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 12:41 Jun-21-2017 .

Sinclair, so you agree there are your other malpracticing AQB's out there at the same time you give the resit option to choose one of them. Funny part is claim its not a money making exercise. So you keep proving the real failure is with BINDT itself and its there the real clean up needs to start from if you really want to.
Guys be aware that BINDT will keep doing this to make false cries to the industry and no guarantee to your certification. Try to choose a certification body who takes responsibility and is really concerned of the industry including the certification holders.
Since its your failure you need to come up with a system to identify legitimate candidates and the ones not. How is that BINDT take the benefit of the doubt and not the victim.
"BINDT a victim too" : Big...???? what sought of control does BINDT have on its AQB's.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Yatharth Singh
Yatharth Singh
23:12 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 12:41 Jun-21-2017 .

Why do you need ATO/AQB in India?..... Money
Why you have approved many centres in India?..... Money
Why you want to take this scheme to India? …. No local project spec requires PCN cert….Money
Why don’t you start your own branch, if you necessarily have to! …… Money
Your scheme speaks of safety and reliability, robustness of measures ….. as you have withdrawn 1000’s of cert….Don’t you think your management is responsible for question of integrity of millions of welds tested by operators certified as per your infected scheme in last few years????
What is the support top management will extend to industry to estimate and mitigate the risk?? Consequences can be disastrous…isn’t it
“We will 'clean-up' the PCN scheme and we will punish 'the rogues'”……. So you admit scheme is spoiled/dirty/infected….. how long it will take… took 5 years for one
“if other AQBs are undertaking malpractice, and you obtained your PCN certification through one such AQB, then you may become a victim of their malpractice”……..he is not sure of other AQB’s as well…….Candidates be cautious…. Think once again if you decide to opt for PCN
“I anticipate that other certification bodies will follow suite”……now you have turned preacher 9sau chuhe kha kar billi haj ko chali…….google will help you)
Many do not like questions!!!!! in the region…..

 
 Reply 
 
Steven Doc
Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy, Egypt, Joined Feb 2011, 187

Steven Doc

Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy,
Egypt,
Joined Feb 2011
187
23:30 Jun-21-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Yatharth Singh at 23:12 Jun-21-2017 .

Just playing devil's advocate here..............

Why do you need ATO/AQB in India?..... attempting to globalise the scheme?

Why you have approved many centres in India?.....Given the size of the sub continent multi locations would seem logical.

Why you want to take this scheme to India? Perhaps an attempt to better validate the skills and knowledge of Indian Technicians within the NDT Industry. Unfortunately SNT-TC-1A schemes have failed in this location.

Why don’t you start your own branch, if you necessarily have to! BINDT manage the scheme, they do not perform any training or examinations themselves.

Your scheme speaks of safety and reliability, robustness of measures ….. as you have withdrawn 1000’s of cert….Don’t you think your management is responsible for question of integrity of millions of welds tested by operators certified as per your infected scheme in last few years???? Nope, I would say their Auditing concept could be questioned, but if anyone is morally responsible for what you state, it must be NDT International. They are the organisation that has been found guilty of malpractice.
What is the support top management will extend to industry to estimate and mitigate the risk?

Consequences can be disastrous…isn’t it - Each Responsible duty-holder must asses the risk they have been exposed to and and mitigate the risk according their own risk matrix. BINDT are not responsible for this. I would have thought each duty-holder would have assessed both certification and competence prior to allowing NDT works to commence. If they did not, they are partially culpable.

“We will 'clean-up' the PCN scheme and we will punish 'the rogues'”……. So you admit scheme is spoiled/dirty/infected….. how long it will take… took 5 years for one
“if other AQBs are undertaking malpractice, and you obtained your PCN certification through one such AQB, then you may become a victim of their malpractice”……..he is not sure of other AQB’s as well…….Candidates be cautious…. Think once again if you decide to opt for PCN.
Candidates may be cautious. That is always the risk with reputation damage. The change is Audit process should uncover any other malpractice, if any.

“I anticipate that other certification bodies will follow suite”……now you have turned preacher 9sau chuhe kha kar billi haj ko chali…….google will help you)
Many do not like questions!!!!! in the region…..

Another person who seems lay all of the blame at the door of the BINDT. BINDT are gulity of having apparently less thorough Audits or Auditors or both. However, let us not allow this to detract from the real source of the problem, NDT International willingly engaging in unethical business practices towards the PCN Scheme.

Its a sorry state of affairs. But anyone denying these malpractices were not already widespread among other certification schemes in the same Geographic location is fooling themselves. This would lead me to state that is is a cultural problem that needs addressing also.

 
 Reply 
 
Yatharth Singh
Yatharth Singh
01:18 Jun-22-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Steven Doc at 23:30 Jun-21-2017 .

Just playing devil's advocate here..............

Why do you need ATO/AQB in India? ..... attempting to globalise the scheme? ..... Interesting… globalizing scheme ….. isolating regions ….

Why you have approved many centres in India? ..... Given the size of the sub continent multi locations would seem logical…… not required for local projects (be it new construction or in-service) then why the region needs to be covered…… for standard harmonization peoples are aware of ISO 9712

Why you want to take this scheme to India? Perhaps an attempt to better validate the skills and knowledge of Indian Technicians within the NDT Industry. Unfortunately, SNT-TC-1A schemes have failed in this location…… DO you really think holding PCN/CSWIP cert (gained with fare process, if possible) implies higher POD and reliability…. it’s a myth….. (>90% NDT in India is as per SNT_TC_1A)

Why don’t you start your own branch, if you necessarily have to! BINDT manage the scheme, they do not perform any training or examinations themselves….. Well managed

Your scheme speaks of safety and reliability, robustness of measures ….. as you have withdrawn 1000’s of cert….Don’t you think your management is responsible for question of integrity of millions of welds tested by operators certified as per your infected scheme in last few years???? Nope, I would say their Auditing concept could be questioned, but if anyone is morally responsible for what you state, it must be NDT International. They are the organisation that has been found guilty of malpractice……… I don’t think end users even know about NDT International, they trust scheme, they would have not accepted a cert issued by NDT international……(Steven, I am not an advocate for NDT International, I don’t care if they go to hell)
What is the support top management will extend to industry to estimate and mitigate the risk?

Consequences can be disastrous…isn’t it - Each Responsible duty-holder must asses the risk they have been exposed to and and mitigate the risk according their own risk matrix. BINDT are not responsible for this. I would have thought each duty-holder would have assessed both certification and competence prior to allowing NDT works to commence. If they did not, they are partially culpable……… if so what is the difference between SNT_TC_1A & PCN

“We will 'clean-up' the PCN scheme and we will punish 'the rogues'”……. So you admit scheme is spoiled/dirty/infected….. how long it will take… took 5 years for one
“if other AQBs are undertaking malpractice, and you obtained your PCN certification through one such AQB, then you may become a victim of their malpractice”……..he is not sure of other AQB’s as well…….Candidates be cautious…. Think once again if you decide to opt for PCN.
Candidates may be cautious. That is always the risk with reputation damage. The change is Audit process should uncover any other malpractice, if any……Many on this forum says audit fails to identify malpractices……As far as I know audits are not meant to stop abuses, the purpose ist to continually improve the process

“I anticipate that other certification bodies will follow suite”……now you have turned preacher (sau chuhe kha kar billi haj ko chali…….google will help you)
Many do not like questions!!!!! in the region…..

Another person who seems lay all of the blame at the door of the BINDT. BINDT are gulity of having apparently less thorough Audits or Auditors or both. However, let us not allow this to detract from the real source of the problem, NDT International willingly engaging in unethical business practices towards the PCN Scheme………I have no intention to blame BINDT, to me it is an organization in some part of globe…. I came across the situation on social media, read this thread…and expressed my opinion

Its a sorry state of affairs. But anyone denying these malpractices were not already widespread among other certification schemes in the same Geographic location is fooling themselves.
This would lead me to state that is is a cultural problem that needs addressing also…. Yes, this the ultimate thought…..cultural problem…Many have already expressed this opinion on this thread
If I understand the word culture…. it reflects the social behaviour of particular society collectively…..NDT International is a company owned by 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 persons
All Indians on this forum belongs to the same poor, fraud culture......happy



 
 Reply 
 
Ken
Ken
02:02 Jun-22-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Ken at 13:02 Jun-21-2017 .

Further from my post earlier on choosing a wise scheme for yourself.

The value of PCN comes from ISO 9712. Without ISO 9712, PCN will not get its global recognition. BINDT PCN is quickly accepted because many countries are ex British colony and we easily align with it. Just like India, Singapore, Malaysia, Australia etc. I love to associate with PCN too.

BINDT has their authority and there is nothing we can do. At the same time, lets not forget you have your rights too. Thus all of you should understand that any schemes under ISO 9712 are equally accepted and mutually recognized globally. NOT JUST PCN. There are dozens of countries with same scheme.

ASME defined certification under ISO 9712 is recognized, which includes PCN but not restricted to or for PNC only.

Those that are loosing it can discuss with other schemes. Those are having it may consider mutual recognition with other schemes and get one more so that you are not left high and dry when BINDT makes a decision across the board regardless.

You have a choice.


 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
08:09 Jun-22-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Mats at 15:09 Jun-21-2017 .

fantastic post. I strongly agree with this gentlemen.

 
 Reply 
 
George
George
08:11 Jun-22-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Yatharth Singh at 01:18 Jun-22-2017 .

Message to all my customers)

Gentle Man please see the side of NDT International as well.

Dear Customer,



NDT International, an Approved Training organisation (ATO) and Authorised Qualifying Body (AQB) duly approved by The British Institute of NDT from 2011. BINDT has approved based on quality management system which is in line with the requirements of ISO 9001 and BINDT requirements. Every year BINDT does rigorous audit on all my operation & locations (almost 30 rounds of audits covering ATO and AQB) from 2011 to 2017 till date to give confidence in our system and only few occasional minor non conformances raised for which actions was sought and we were advised to continue with the operations. In addition to that BINDT also have done surprise audit as part of their requirement on my premises few times and no major NC observed during the visit which given confidence in our operations.

If any non conformance, customer complaints which is major in nature is detected or if any violation against the system is identified, BINDT may withdraw the ATO and AQB approvals, and from the date of withdrawal we may be unauthorised us to conduct training and examination under BINDT PCN Scheme. Currently, without any formal audit BINDT have raised few allegations (based on customer complaints, secret audit) and BINDT have withdrawn the approval of NDT International. NDT International is now in the process of appealing against the withdrawal decision of BINDT this week. Meanwhile BINDT doesn’t have any provision in their system to withdraw the certificates provided till date (31st May 2017) to the end user. For all the candidates who has appeared for training and examination we have paid the training fees (in the form of Audit fees covering various branches on yearly basis) and examination fees (in the form of AEC audit fee/ AQB audit fee and PCN Levy) to BINDT and it’s their responsibility to ensure the certificate are kept active until their validity.

Now BINDT is advising the candidates to appear for the re examinations without training (based on the training certificate issued by NDT International) with any of the BINDT approved AQB with some time frame. What is the guarantee that they will not withdraw the other agency that you prefer for the re exam. Moreover the examination fee was already paid and why candidate has to take re-exam by paying additional re exam fee.

Moreover the certificate is the property of BINDT and we don’t have any control and liability on the certificate issued. We intend to organise Re exam (completely administered by BINDT on my premises) at free of cost (provided BINDT doesn’t charge PCN Levy again). The administration cost of arranging all the exams, invigilator fee, and examiner fee will be taken care by NDT International. We are waiting for the approval from BINDT for the above proposal.

Reply from BINDT:


Whether a PCN levy is charged is not a matter for you to be concerned about.



BINDT did send the withdrawal letter on 31/05/2017 late evening with Eight allegations against NDT International. Before we represent ourselves to the panel on 15/06/2017 we did send a customer assessment survey form (in which all the allegations are addressed and assessed) and the following customers (Top management / key personnel / Level 3) were contacted with the aim of collecting the feedback ,

Representatives from the following Plant owners / TPI Agencies (appeared for exams with us)
S.No
Name of the organisation
Location
1
Saudi Aramco Shell Refinery
Saudi Arabia
2
SABIC
Saudi Arabia
3
Petroleum Development Oman
Sultanate of Oman
4
Occidental, Oman
Sultanate of Oman
5
Bumi Armada Berhad
Malaysia
6
Shell Seraya Chemicals (S) Pte Ltd
Singapore
7
Singapore LNG Corporation Pte Ltd
Singapore
8
SEMBCORP Marine Ltd
Singapore
9
Shell Eastern Petroleum Ltd
Singapore
10
EXXON Mobil
Iraq, Singapore
11
NPCC, Abhudhabi
Abu Dhabi
12
Drydocks World, Dubai
Dubai
13
MCDERMOTT Middle East, Abhudhabi
Dubai
14
PETROFAC International Ltd, Sharjah
Dubai
15
Bureau Veritas, Qatar
Singapore, Qatar, Oman, Abu dhabi, Saudi arabia
16
SGS
Singapore
17
Qatar Petroleum
Qatar

18
Intertek- Inspec
Sharjah
19
GE ALSTOM
India
20
TUV SUD
Singapore
21
SETSCO services Pte Ltd
Singapore
22
Samsung C&T
SIngapore
23
HEEREMA offshore services
SIngapore
24
Bluewater Energy Services
SIngapore
25
AMEC Foster Wheeler Asia Pacific Pte Ltd
SIngapore
26
SOFEC Floating Systems Pte Ltd
SIngapore
27
BW offshore Singapore Pte Ltd
SIngapore
28
JEL Mainatenance Pte Ltd

SIngapore
29
Dyna-mac Engineering Services Pte Ltd.
SIngapore










Representatives from the following NDT service Providers (appeared for exams with us)
S.No
Name of the organisation
Location
1
KPG Synergy SDN BHD
Malaysia
2
MJ Inspection Consultancy SDN BHD
Malaysia
3
OAG Inspection SDN BHD
Malaysia
4
Energy Work Force
Malaysia
5
INTERTEK INSPEC, Sharjah
Dubai
6
Aries Marine
Dubai
7
Bureau Veritas
Dubai
8
APTS
Dubai
9
Sigma Specialised Inspection Co. LLC
Dubai
10
Global Inspection Services WLL
Qatar
11
Inspection Corrosion Engineering Services
Qatar
12
Prevent and Protect WLL
Qatar
13
Oceaneering
Qatar
14
Atomic Technologies Pte Ltd
Singapore
15
A-Star Testing & Inspection

Singapore
16
Masterscan Engineering Pte Ltd
Singapore
17
Qualitech NDT & Consultancy (S) Pte Ltd

Singapore
18
Goodwill Engineering Pte Ltd
Singapore
19
Jasscan Inspection Pte Ltd
Singapore
20
Weldtech Inspection services Pte Ltd
Singapore
21
Best NDT Inspection Technologies Pte Ltd
Singapore
22
Cast Laboratories Pte Ltd
Singapore
23
NIVI NDT services Pte Ltd.
Singapore
24
Qualitech NDT & Consultancy (S) Pte Ltd

Singapore
25
Worldscan Engineering Pte Ltd
Singapore
26
Sunrays NDT & Engineering Services
Singapore
27
LEEDS specialist services Pte Ltd.
Singapore
28

U-Sonix Inspection Solutions Pvt. Ltd

India

29

Industrial X-ray & Allied Radiographers

India

30

Modi Institute of Non Destructive Testing

India

31

Raysonic NDT Services

India

32

Southern Inspection Services

India

33

BIT Inspection Technology

India

34

Bhide’s Institute of Testing Technology

India

35

KGB Inspection Services

India

36
Sievert Arabia Ltd
Saudi Arabia
37
Rosen Saudi Arabia Co Ltd
Saudi Arabia
38
AMO & Partners Engg. Co.
Saudi Arabia
39
Q- Tech
Saudi Arabia
40
Sievert Technical Inspection LLC
Sultanate of Oman






Most of the clients are corporate for NDT International which includes the above organisations . The business percentage is almost 90% through corporate companies. All the assessment forms after obtaining from the various customers mentioned above was analysed and found confirming that the allegations made against NDT International was false and there is no system failure observed (as expressed in the allegations).



No major end user complaints (end user utilising the services of trained personnel duly trained and examined by NDT International) received by BINDT. Till date we never received any complaints on the above mentioned clients regarding the performance of the NDT Inspector / Technician which requires corrective action. All the above clients confirmed that we did conduct the training and examination legitimately. All the above clients have confirmed that there is no corruption in the organisation.



Being an excellent customer of mine you may be very well aware of the quality of the training and the examination services provided by NDT International. I can very well confirm that the training and examination services was conducted in a legitimate manner for all my customers.

We are in the process of appealing the decision taken by BINDT and hope to receive a positive outcome at the end of the appeal.



Looking forward to provide my value added services at all times,


G.Venkataraman
Director
NDT International

 
 Reply 
 
Raj
Raj
08:18 Jun-22-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Yatharth Singh at 01:18 Jun-22-2017 .

I think Some body had given a good job to Steeve

 
 Reply 
 
stein
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 8

stein

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
8
10:52 Jun-22-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 12:41 Jun-21-2017 .

If anyone get any professional certifications ( Like in welding, coating, and NDT...) it is not means that the person can able to perform work and meet 100 % job requirement. He /She has to under go many situation to perform quality work and get their employers/customer confident.
in case of NDT, it is not that because of BINDT certification he/She can able to work without any question from employer/customer.
1. He/She may need to pass employer/customer interviews, Mock up specimen test,
2. Training from employer/customer to meet specific requirement
3. The NDT results of certification holders will be Re examined /revalidated by TPI/Customer inspections /End users.
Many other methods and procedure are being followed in the market to meet or to get their intended quality products.
Being a Surveyor in third party inspection in oil and gas, I have been in touch with many NDT/welding professional in South east Asia
The recent action by BINDT is very unfair .

Due to uncertainty in the global economy and oil price , some of the impacts are ...,

1. A NDT company has met and fulfilled all requirement like infrastructures, site examination for individual and about to complete NDT work under the supervision of reputed TPI for drill ship project at ship yard in Singapore, The customer pointed this issue and barred all the personnel and invalidated the results. But the actual scenario is that ship owner does not have enough financial at present to complete this project- Now they are much thankful to BINDT .

2. Due to set back in oil and gas industry , the employer want to retrench their employees (NDT, QCs) , employers may need to give compensation with respect country's law to their employees, Now they will simply tell them to go out with out or with less bargained compensation. This will be applicable to many of QC who have Welding and NDT qualification.

It's purely unjustified and unethical decision of BINDT to withdraw all the personnel certifications who have completed from NDT international-Singapore.
It is like a wise sovereign dropping deadly shell in his dense hamlet to kill a terrorist or I believe that this drama to creating more brand value of BINDT.

 
 Reply 
 
bob
bob
12:34 Jun-22-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to David at 02:17 Jun-16-2017 (Opening).

Anyone who isn't confident of having to resit PCN exams should go to a training institute in Malaysia. The results sheet showing the defects is given to you by the students who sat the exam the previous week. This was several years ago presume its still the same.

1
 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
12:49 Jun-22-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to bob at 12:34 Jun-22-2017 .

situation is not the same now.

exam center itself gives the question paper.

MINDT is cheap out of all 3.

next is Ruane Tati

3rd is TWI

all same

1
 
 Reply 
 
bob
bob
16:13 Jun-22-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to doug wyile at 12:49 Jun-22-2017 .

I am talking about the results for the test pieces, or are you trying to tell me the exam centre knocks up new ones each time.

 
 Reply 
 
Anon
Anon
21:43 Jun-22-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to doug wyile at 08:28 Jun-21-2017 .

Dear Sir

Let me just clarify the issue for you, BINDT have AQBs and ATOs that do the training and examinations on their behalf all fees are collected by the AQB and ATO for training no fees are collected by BINDT and for examinations a small levy fee is invoiced to the AQB not the candidate. Therefore NDT international made the money not BINDT and also as they don't do training and examinations themselves they can't offer the exam for free as they will need to use the network of approved centres who will have expenses etc to administer new exams. The reason it can't be done at NDT international is because they are withdrawn due to malpractice so why on earth would BINDT agree to let them carry on that's just a ridiculous suggestion.

 
 Reply 
 
Mats
Mats
22:14 Jun-22-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Anon at 21:43 Jun-22-2017 .

I dont want to list here how much BINDT earn from each individual but they keep claiming is only a small levy fees.... We all know how costlier is one PCN certification and is that its AQB's are justi collecting for themselves and BINDT is not aware of it at all. Come on unless fair share is going to BINDT of what is getting collected from individuals, I dont think the AQS,s charge for themselves. Why is the same AQB's if they provide ASNT certification only charge only approx 1/6th of the PCN for the same. So it should be clear who is earning millions of pounds, BINDT or the AQB's.

 
 Reply 
 
Jason
Jason
00:18 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to stein at 10:52 Jun-22-2017 .

This is a friction for appreciation only.

You go into XYZ franchise coffee and ordered a coffee, paid for it and sat down, took one sip.

Suddenly the head office comes in, announces that the coffee powder is of sub quality, closes the shop, takes your coffee away and ask you to buy your coffee from another XYZ location (of your choice), at your own expenses within the next half hour.

No refunds.

What would you feel as consumers?

Hell would you know what is right or wrong coffee? You just entered a authorized franchise shop believing all is well and that's the way its done and run and paid for it.

Now you are left with a headache because you did not get your shot of coffee and you are still branded as a potential "rogue" coffee drinker for accepting a sub standard coffee.

XYZ reserve the right to go after you and brand you as a "rogue" coffee drinker.

XYZ declares themselves as a "victim"

End of story and all live happily ever after


1
 
 Reply 
 
Dave
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 13

Dave

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
13
03:31 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Jason at 00:18 Jun-23-2017 .

Jason, oh dear!

We are talking about certification here allowing potentially (and certainly some) incompetent people to inspect and render for for purpose things that we come across in every day life, bridges, planes, pipelines it goes on and on.

A cup of coffee doesn't come close my friend.

Would you want your kids to ride a fairground rollercoaster that had been signed off as ok by someone who had no idea what he was doing. This is the crux of the problem.

Anyway, We all know now where you can pay extra money for a guaranteed coffee if you want.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Jason
Jason
03:50 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Dave at 03:31 Jun-23-2017 .

Hi...ha ha... yes, coffee is just coffee... its just a level of seriousness, I agree.

But the relationship between each party are the same.... but at a different ball game only.

I do not support wrong doings and not supporting NDT International or BINDT. I wish the world would weed out all these incompetent engineering personnel.

However, I just find it a huge irony that BINDT is not bearing sufficient (or anything noticeable) responsibilities on this saga. They continue to walk high and mighty, talk great, continue to call all others names like rogue, challenge others but wait....

BINDT is in full control all the while
What is their penalty?
Did they admit anything wrong with them?
Was there a detail investigation internally?
Any corrupted official or auditors that let things slip by for years?

More questions to be answered by BINDT.

Claiming victim or will improve is not acceptable answer.

BTW, I am a trained, registered and qualified auditor for 20 years. Many things can be fabrication. But experienced, knowledgeable and competent auditors will know.




And they claim victim....

1
 
 Reply 
 
Shashank VAGAL
India, Joined Jun 2014, 73

Shashank VAGAL

India,
Joined Jun 2014
73
03:57 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Abbas Zoher Bombaywala at 13:52 Jun-19-2017 .

Are you sure of what you have written here, it is rather clumsy, meaning, it does not make any sense at all.

 
 Reply 
 
Shashank VAGAL
India, Joined Jun 2014, 73

Shashank VAGAL

India,
Joined Jun 2014
73
04:31 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Abbas Zoher Bombaywala at 13:52 Jun-19-2017 .

It is a very sorry state of affairs. BINDT has been reckless to say the least and has fallen prey to some misguiding forces. Mr G Venkataraman's post is very disturbing. We have been doing NDT training for some years now and every time I finish with a class, I tell them, this is an introduction to the subject. To become proficient, you have to put in a lot of field work with as many different configurations of test specimens as possible before you get a meaningful insight in to the subject. Some times when we have an opportunity and the candidate is "available", we arrange some field visits to assess and enhance his capabilities What we have going on now is churning out NDT technicians with a click of fingers. this is very dangerous from the viewpoint of safety aspects in industry. The wise need to take over.

1
 
 Reply 
 
PK
PK
06:59 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Dave at 03:31 Jun-23-2017 .

hello Dave,

you statement is correct "Would you want your kids to ride a fairground roller coaster that had been signed off as OK by someone who had no idea what he was doing. This is the crux of the problem."

May i know when is the last time you been to site and worked on field? or when is the last time you observe the job qualification?

if not it my pleasure to explain you the process.

- no technical is directly going and performing job there is an process called qualification
- technician must qualify the block given by client to prove his ability in that particular job.
- he will be witnessed by client QA representative who has sound knowledge on what he does
- then he need to clear interview in order to carry on the job

on all these above process, as per your statement whom you want to blame now?
- client is choosing technician who doesn't know the job? then it is clients fault
- client doesnt give a proper test piece to qualify him? again client fault
- client taken technician to job without qualifying him? once again clients fault

do you say like " clients may be bribed/ guarantee pass/ malpractice / secret shoppers / whatever. - Cameroon "

on my personnel experience with NDTI:

it is not that easy to pass on exams as you all think. we gone through hard times and very good support from NDTI (NOTE: Support as in training support, specifically for dumb people who doesn't understand the meaning of support)

during my training i practiced till 11 PM in class and the surprise is the owner of that institute was sitting beside me until i complete my training, he doesn't even bothered about the time and he was concerned on giving quality training to me. he also said " if you feel that you want to practice more please do continue i will stay with you" this is on my personnel experience.

do you ever give your laptop or Software key for data analysis to your trainees without knowing anything about him? he gave. when i said i feel i need to practice more he gave me full support with laptop and data analyse key and said " practice until you get confident, call me anytime when you have doubt, and if you still feel that you are not confident pls do let me know i will make further arrangements until u are satisfied and confidence enough."

i agree the term mentioned "GUARANTEE PASS" by Cameron. - Responding to your question, of course NDTI has a guarantee pass, do you think an candidate will fail his exam after this much Support (refer NOTES) from training institute? guarantee pass is with their tough and supportive training and not by giving dollars as you said. ( of course we have given a lot for BINT as top dollars for the certificates which shall be withdrawn anytime in future )

if you still have question with my training ability its my responsibility to prove my capability.

arrange an blind test, let it be common all over shoot RT and all method make the report and take the piece, in all the method i hold i will test that block and result will be produced to you.

you choose your repercussion

- your own thickness of block
- machine of your choice ( anything it may be) i shall use.
- you choose how many and what kind of indication.

same time i will challenge one technician who was qualified in UK directly to perform the job.

- if i fail the moke up i agree all your statements
- if the other guy who was trained in UK passed also i agree all your statements that UK is giving good training

what if:
- i passed your moke up. will you with draw your statement that Indians are like this and will you publish in BINDT website that not all technician in India are same. ( i give an very good option for BINDT to find legitimate candidate)

-the other technician who trained by UK institute failed in Exam? will you withdraw all the certificates approved by the institute in UK? will you publish in your site immediately and with no effect immediately shall been withdrawn? ( i give an very good option for BINDT to find legitimate candidate)

if this happened cancel all certificate and whole BINDT approved person shall resit for exam. considering the safety of the industry.

THIS IS AN OPEN DECLARATION.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Ken
Ken
07:15 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to PK at 06:59 Jun-23-2017 .

Well said PK. Spoken as an experienced guy.

Those at the end of the food chain are always the first to be hit hardest. In this case, the cert holders. They are the easiest and most defenseless wipping boys. There are many requirements in.the industry for assurace that are not practised in real life and its not uncommon.

Three cheers for you.

1
 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
08:21 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to bob at 16:13 Jun-22-2017 .

go to centers in malaysia and no need to write exams on your ow. they themselves write for you (if required) and there will be a fee charged for that.

Other centre they will give you a node in the morning to you, afternnon to your friend, next day to other friend, next day afternoon to other friend. shame

1
 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
08:31 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Jason at 00:18 Jun-23-2017 .

wrong example taken.

on any circumstance any actions can be justified by taking wrong examples.

Coffee powder supplied by BINDT, How to make coffee - protocol laid by BINDT. Making the coffee- monitored by BINDT. Sample drink - tested by BINDT for 7 years.

if they tell now, whatever the coffee supplied for the last 7 years is not coffee and it is a shit, do you think the person consuming the coffee is a fool.

2
 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
08:56 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to PK at 06:59 Jun-23-2017 .

PK

Excellent post. I agree with your view point. I understand the pain. I acknowledge the hard work done by you and as well as NDT International.

I am also a participant of NDTI. Experience of mine

a) It is a very hard working Institute
b) you can stay extra hours even till 10 PM (as i wont normally I leave but lot of Indian guys does)
c) Professional approach on all the administration aspects
d) prompt and responsive management
e) extra number of days , if I intend to work they obligue with no cost
f) They give lap top, software keys to carry to my hotel to practise (i challenge nobody does the same)
g) Excellent infrastructure ( huge number of samples, huge number of equipment, one to one)
h) knowledgeable trainers
i) I paid money on my last day of training eventhen they never stop my training
j) easy access to the management
k) They give one time lunch, two coffee during the training


what else required in addition to the above????

Lot of institutes they not even allow to touch the OMNISCAN machine or they allocate 3 candidates per machine. In NDTI I literally play with equipments. Till my completion one full set was mine with all the required accessories. They dont care even if any damage happens. It is unfortunate that they lost their approval. I am sure that they will bounce back and serve the NDT Society. It is a real loss for BINDT.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Aussie
Aussie
09:02 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to David at 02:17 Jun-16-2017 (Opening).

I have got my all PCN certs form PCN headquarter in Cambridge. All my 5 year renewals and 10 year resits are done in WA - Australia. when the time arrived for me to re sit i looked up on PCN website and looked for an authorised Test centre in WA , PCN directed me to Perth centre ( I repeat PCN directed me). i had no hesitation in doing my re sit in the centre which they publish in their own website. Now tomorrow if BINDT come back to me and say . sorry son your certificate aren’t valid , we are withdrawing it. is it my problem. PCN should sort out their shit comes on its way between the ATO and themselves . NOT ME. what an immature international organization mates.

1
 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
10:21 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Aussie at 09:02 Jun-23-2017 .

There are lot of guys who possess 10 Level 3 in ASNT

also few guys have PCN Level 3 in RT,UT,MT,PT,ET,VT,PAUT,TOFD which is awarded by BINDT. How BINDT has issued the cert to the same guys with 20 methods when practically working in all the methods is literally not possible.

BINDT doesn't raise a question on the exp. requirements of the candidates on this case???

Either BINDT has a serious system Lapse or BINDT is not worried about quality or they need to make money on this process

1
 
 Reply 
 
Anon
Anon
10:26 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Mats at 22:14 Jun-22-2017 .

I think you should look at information before you comment. BINDT publish its charges every year the levy for 2016 was £60. The rest is kept at the AQB hence why the prices vary at each centre.

 
 Reply 
 
andy
andy
10:32 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 12:41 Jun-21-2017 .

Dear Sir, I believe without your approval; the panel might not decide to withdraw all 7000 certificates and decide to retain NDT International staff PCN Certificate by allowing them to work in the Industry.

As per your website, currently 9 PCN cert holders certificate of staff from NDT International have been now removed from your website. However, you allowed remaining 35 PCN holders (reference to your website) to work . Please note these staffs are only banned by BINDT from working in BINDT approved organizations but allowed to work in any other industry.
Does this mean you want to keep your BINDT Approved organization safe and allow these mal practice staffs from NDT International to work around the world?
In that case your concern over Industrial safety is not strong and only the motive of money is strong.
The reason, the NDT Staff qty is just below 50 (if you withdraw then your exam income is few pounds) but by withdrawing 7000 student certs, your exam fees income will be in millions of pounds as huge and so you decided to withdraw all of our 7000 Certification.
This is completely injustice to the safer industry were we are working currently.

1
 
 Reply 
 
john
john
10:35 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 12:41 Jun-21-2017 .


This message is not supporting either parties (i.e. BINDT or NDT International) at the same time I am not trying here to insult any of these two companies. These all came out from my heart for which as a responsible CEO of BINDT can clarify. Moreover, as a common victim and on behalf of the 8000 Certificate holders I sincerely wish for BINDT to revisit their decision:
These queries are directing to Mr.CEO of BINDT. As a trusty CEO of BINDT, you have the responsibility to answer to victims on the below statements:
1- In our project, most of the people have done their qualifications in NDT International and we have never ever felt the need to voice any bad opinions against them. NDT International have delivered very good training and ethically conducted examination to my team. If BINDT has solid evidence against NDT International on their allegation over malpractice then why don’t BINDT file a legal case against your approved ATO/AQB (i.e. NDT International) who earned approximately 7 Million GBP (i.e Appx., calculation is 8000 certificate in average INR 70,000/certificate) through your ATO/AQB advertisement in BINDT website as a marketing strategy that BINDT did for NDT International by displaying NDT International name in www.bindt.org site.
Please send legal notice to NDT International immediately to reimburse the training & examination fee to all 8000 certificates holders. NDTI earned money from us by using the BINDT name. If someone is earning money using your name you should punish that organization and file a case against them. In which way is it justifiable that BINDT set consequences for the students. The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. Although we haven’t performed any forgery or malpractice of any kind we are getting punished by your organization. Because NDT International has earned sufficiently they decide not to bother about the outcomes for the students.
Please note NDT International is not our first choice to go and it was instead your choice as you did marketing for NDT International through your website by displaying the NDT International name. So please don’t ask us to contact NDT International on this regard as it’s BINDT that must take this issue upon their shoulder. Our guys, have already lost one year’s worth of their salary by doing these PCN courses with your approved ATO/AQB (i.e NDT International). None of 8000 Victims as an individual don’t have any more money to file and run a case against NDT International. On behalf of all students as a responsible organization please help students to get their money back.

2- BINDT has withdrawn NDT International ATO/AQB and withdrawn all 8000 Certificates of students. As per the BINDT official statement, this happened due to the reason that NDT International performed malpractice. As a victim, our guys have undergone training with NDT International staff who might have been part of this malpractice and they have not been held to any form of punishment. But as innocent people why should we get punished? Now NDT International Staffs are allowed by BINDT to work around the world using BINDT’s valid PCN Certificates (i.e As they are only prohibited to work for BINDT approved organizations).
It hardly seems fair when we as students haven’t done anything wrong at all and they on the other hand have. Can BINDT guarantee that these NDT international staffs will not do such similar malpractices in their next job using valid PCN Certificate by approving critical equipment (e.g., Pressure Vessels / Pressure Piping’s etc.,) for few pounds of money? If people are running under their management it may breach Industrial safety. BINDT is just opening another door for NDT International staff to enter into another business and thus allowing these events to recur again that shall generate doubt on industrial safety.
3- Please list out (in this forum) all the allegations against NDT International as a part of BINDT findings that have led BINDT to take such a decision. This is important for all the victims as everyone should be aware of the extent of the mistake NDT International has done, this is as a part of lesson that must be taught to other members of this industry.
4- BINDT was awarded the status of “Certifying Body” by UKAS. Don’t UKAS see this saga made by BINDT as a major nonconformance and withdraw your “Certification Body” Status by considering BINDT as a big threat to the Industry instead of a big asset?
5- Please advise us on BINDT’s certification withdrawal policy? Did BINDT display for public view in your website? I came to know that none of the 8000 Certificate holders never ever received from you about such policies till date to understand the ground for BINDT to withdraw any of these victim certificate without even victim knowledge. Does UKAS know such a non-conformance was done by BINDT?
6- Please let us know the reason on why till date have BINDT never published any such withdrawal policies for end user to read and understand before they even think to take this PCN Certification. Even today I couldn’t see any of your PSL / CP or any other document (those are in BINDT website) speak about your policy on certification withdrawal. While the fact is like this, on which basis can you withdraw 8000 certificates overnight without showing any evidence to any of the affected victims. Is this acceptable to UKAS?
7- Did BINDT have any proof that we (on behalf of all 8000 Certificate holders) as victims violated the CP 27 requirement?
8- Your CP 21 Issue 8 (available in http://www.bindt.org/Certification/pcn-exam-requirements-and-document-download/ ) section 5.2.4 states “PCN certificate holder – If a complaint is made against a PCN certificate holder, it is likely to be for one of two fundamental reasons, either there is an issue relating to technical competence or there is an issue relating to the Code of Conduct”. Moreover, in the same sec 5.2.4 there is clear cut guidelines that have been given about penalties for PCN Certificate holders in the event of violation made by us.
As stated in your CP 21, did you find any fundamental reason against any of these 8000 Certification holders that violates Sec 5.2.4 that leads to the withdrawal of students’ certificates.
None in our project have clear understanding on which ground BINDT has decided to withdraw student certificate and decided to retain NDT International Staff Certificate by declaring as NDT International staff’s PCN Certificates as valid.
9- The 2-month notice is very short so why don’t you consider an option to all these 8000 certificate holders for writing exams at the time of renewal of certificates (or) why don’t you consider taking up this issue on case by case to help innocents who have legitimately undergone training and exam at NDT International.
On behalf of all victims, I kindly request you to revisit your decision of withdrawal of all 8000 Certificates. If you find the root cause as NDT International then that company (permanently removed from your ATO/AQB lists) and their staff (PCN Qualification shall be permanently removed) shall be punished and not innocent people like us.
I hope you as a CEO of BINDT will respond to the above queries with a highly professional manner.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Raja
Raja
11:16 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to PK at 06:59 Jun-23-2017 .

Dear PK,

Hats off for your open declaration.

To the supporters of BINDT, let me ask you something.

Do you really feel like the decision which is taken by BINDT right now is perfect. Definitely not. Actually, the real truth is they closed down their name, quality, standard everything in a single decision. The faith about the organization is totally degraded. The institute NDTI is running from the year 2011 and BINDT is doing regular audits and finally all of a sudden due to so and so reason (........) we are withdrawn all the certificates from all the personnel who studied in the institute. What a Great Decision... Great Applause.... There is no more belief in BINDT since it may happen to any other institutes in near future.

Can anyone show me the documentary evidence from BINDT that they have a rights to withdrawn the certificates before its gets expired.






 
 Reply 
 
Deb Goutam,
Deb Goutam,
13:51 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Raja at 11:16 Jun-23-2017 .

What is the meaning fill up the PSL57A, APPLICATION FOR THE INITIAL examination by the Candidate his experience and supervisor details name, address, contact number, email ID
and Signature.
That means BINDT or AQB/ATO nobody verify the given details, only issuing the results by AQB/ATO & BINDT responsibility only issuing Certificate.
Now, you can imagine what is the Roles and Responsibilities of BINDT Auditors year after year.

 
 Reply 
 
Rolf Diederichs
Director,
NDT.net, Germany, Joined Nov 1998, 608

Rolf Diederichs

Director,
NDT.net,
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
608
14:48 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Peter P. at 19:57 Jun-21-2017 .

Peter,

Good point! I also think that there should be a committee that verifies BINDT's decision.

I think that ambrella societies ICNDT, EFNDT, APCNDT or Indian Society of NDT should play a role in this matter.

I am sure that some board members of these organizations know about this forum thread and I would appreciate to hear what they can do in this matter to help thousands of victims.

Rolf

1
 
 Reply 
 
doug wyile
Australia, Joined Jun 2017, 43

doug wyile

Australia,
Joined Jun 2017
43
14:52 Jun-23-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to john at 10:35 Jun-23-2017 .

It looks this is from competitor of NDT International. Since the content speak more about CP21,20,27 and so on either this may be an information from an ATO/AQB currently running or may be from a withdrawan one.

Ha Ha Ha your poor Indians will never change. Fight among your selves and expose

 
 Reply 
 
Jason
Jason
02:27 Jun-24-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 11:09 Jun-21-2017 .

To BINDT,

Do what you like with NDTI. It is a relationship between BINDT and them. BIINDT did not ask our opinion or consulted us when BINDT forge a relationship and approved NDTI and allow them to represent BINDT.

BINDT claims victim and acknowledges that certificate holders are victims too. Thank you.
BINDT also acknowledges that there are malpractices out there too.
BINDT system is now proven to be flawed and can be flawed for many years.

Putting aside if BINDT has the documented and announced basis to withdraw, I ask BINDT:

Why are only the victims of certificate holders punished by withdrawal? Will this withdrawal, can BINDT declare 100% clean, quality, reliability and safety for its certificate holders and scheme? The answer is obviously NO, NO and NO. Since it is no, and malpractices are still out there as admitted, the quality and safety is still not upheld. If it is not upheld, why just pick on certificate holders? Maybe a first step forward? No. This is the only step we are hearing.

You claim victim too. Hence, what is BINDT share for such massive failures? Are you withdrawing from ISO 9712?
If BINDT claim improvement as BINDT way forward without withdrawal from ISO 9712, then so can certificate holders make the same claims and move on. If not, why double standard?

Now I challenge you to proof quality, reliability and safety:

Show us BINDT team of competent certification and auditors for this scheme. What are their qualifications, certifications, experience, professional registrations, projects, management skills and competence. Subject to public scrutiny.

Do internal investigation with independent experts and open to the public all results. Resume of current and past auditors and reports of NDTI shall be publically available on the internet to prove BINDT did a impeccable job. Audit reports shall be subjected to public scrutiny and all questions shall be answer. In future, all audit reports shall be publically available on the internet for public scrutiny.

Halt PCN scheme and suspend all certificates globally immediately. Redraw your whole system and get accredited again. Obviously BINDT PCN system has major flaws.

Get external competent consultants from different parts of the world to form a team to review BINDT PCN scheme for flaws.

Do probe for corruptions with external expert team on those that are auditing, certification and approving within BINDT. Ask British corruption practice authority to come in and investigate. Show results publically.

Audit all centres, go through thoroughly, retest 100% of certificates holders. Free exams and to be taken 6 months for each method each level and add more months equally for each methods/level that has been acquired. All BINDT officials shall be present at all centres for exams and do not tell centres that BINDT is not free or has no resource. All those that pass shall have their dates set for additional 5 more years.

Free optional refresher for those that took exams more than 6 months ago. Centres are free to give free training if they wish.

Audit all centres and screen all (100%) records for malpractices, post all results, procedures, and details of audit on the web.

All are open for public scrutiny on the internet.

Come back and declare when all are done and done competently. Then we believe you are serious with quality, reliability and safety in a manner you do to the 8000 certificate holders.

If there are any innocent parties, say sorry too. if that cost BINDT PCN scheme too much, we are sorry too.

Otherwise, stop claiming quality, reliability and safety, calling names, its just double standard and shame on BINDT.

NDTI is gone. Certificate holders are gone. BINDT is the only one left that needs to show something of equal or rightfully greater responsibilities and being the driver, you hold the steering wheels.







 
 Reply 
 
stein
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 8

stein

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
8
06:52 Jun-24-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to stein at 10:52 Jun-22-2017 .

BINDT.....,
maintain high levels of safety
1. As soon as completion of NDT work, No product will be taken in to their intended operation, Those will undergo operational tests ( like pressure test, load test and etc... ) it is a just reason from BINDT to display in their portal .
2. Now days, When a person want to get certification, He /she will enquiry and choose a institute who will impart good training in terms of theory and practical. people knows that only certificate will not help them to get job and also to retain it. also common that all the customer/employers are having entry level interview/mock up tests/Cross verifications/ Reviews

Biased decision :
1. Certification holders are direct customer of BINDT, getting feedback from secret shopper (now PCN has changed and spelled as covert t investigations) about their own ATO/AQB, and withdrawal of all certifications will not be a justifiable action, It will be agreeable, If BINDT receives complaints from customer of certification holder and taking action like this.

2. Certification personal can also raise this complaint to "UKAS" and " IAF" ( also CEN and ISO TC) who issued ISO 9712 to BINDT. UKAS can raise NC to BINDT' about this flaw in BINDT's system and can be issued suspension to BINDT, till corrective action has been proven.

Request to CEO of BINDT.
It is obvious that every system have flaws with respect to it's nature of process, corrective action shall kill only flaws not to other characteristic and images . The withdrawal of personal certification should have not displayed in BINDT portal. might have been communicated through individuals. Now it is not a question of their competency and also their image in the society.
These decisions might have taken through some source of raw information and other mottos.
Please enquire about your own team by secrete shoppers and take unbiased decision .
Punishment will not be considered as corrective action to rectify flaw in the systems.
NDTI- Withdrawn
Certification holders - With drawn ( do not have taken any data analysis to find who is competent and incompetent )
BINDT---- ????

 
 Reply 
 
John
John
08:38 Jun-24-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 14:48 Jun-20-2017 .

Dear Cameron,

I appreciate the step taken by BINDT to ban and revoke the certificates of all candidates.

I was going through the NDT International center list, its more than 5 centers they have. My question is why did you approve so many centers from single company? offcourse to make money.... (both NDT international and BINDT)..

Why do you allow ATO and AQB to conduct training and examination outside their main center which is approved, if you would have not allowed it, this issue might have not happened or might have been avoided. When the candidates are more and the tutors are less this issue will happen. So change your policy....

Now coming to your decision to ban... It is a serious fraud....Is it duty of BINDT to just ban them? did you took any legal action against them? No because you will not be paid for taking legal action..... (you are purely a private company not working for society)

What if the NDT International management starts a new company and gets approval from BINDT by projecting new staff and not showing the original owners? Again this mess will happen...

Regarding retake of exams by the candidates... Yes all candidates should be re-examined, but when? PCN courses are scheduled as per the convenience of the candidates, if the candidate is in offshore or in site where there is no center then for writing this exam in a 2 months time he has to resign his job and appear for his re-exam. BINDT don't give any limited schedule to ATO/AQB for conducting PCN courses as compared API which has 2 sittings in a year, but BINDT wants to make money so don't have limited schedule.

How do you expect that the candidate will leave his job for the sake of take re-examination at the center? Don't you feel that there is a lapse in decision taken by BINDT?

Don't say that industry has decided this decision. If you want to be reliable certification provider then take legal action against NDT International, allow the candidates to take re-exam as per their convenience (give some long time frame say about 1 to 2 years) because it is failure of BINDT to provide service to the candidates and the re-take examination should be free of cost.

If my company is ATO/AQB approved by BINDT then I can conduct the courses anywhere in the world. How you are allowing this? I have seen there is no center approved in Hong kong but from other country they conduct only the PCN examination and training is provided by the local people who are not approved by BINDT. These kind of things will happen if you concentrate mainly $$$$...... think about it.....

STOP acting as if there is no issue from BINDT side and for me its projecting as your main motto is to earn money. Ultimately in future ACCP will gain advantage compared to PCN as their centers are very limited for practices as their theory examination is online, no cheating can be done...............

 
 Reply 
 
Mats
Mats
11:11 Jun-24-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Cameron Sinclair at 11:09 Jun-21-2017 .

Hello Sinclair,

- BINDT is a victim too : Its a false claim. BINDT is the beneficiary in this scam more than NDTI. You earned millions of pounds and plan in place to multiply the earnings in short period of time. Its only the certificate holder the victim of your Scam.

Questions:
- Are those people, making the most vociferous complaints, entirely innocent or did they pay 'top dollar' for a 'guaranteed pass' and have now been found out?.
You need to judge your own system in place first for this question. If top dollars were paid it was you who issued the guaranteed pass through the hands NDTI.

- If they are competent, why are they worried - surely their employer and/or customers will allow them to continue to work if they are competent?.
Surprised by your question. If employer's allow to continue work just because they are competent then what is the point of certification here. Be informed that valid certification and competence goes hand in hand for an individual to continue working. Just any one of them is not compliant to ISO 9712 and deliver a quality product to industry you are much worried about. Or are your indirectly saying that employer based qualification are always the best to stay away from such scams, then I agree its all up to employers. Also yes there is a bit of worry now for all certificate holders after the mess you have created now, because why should one not doubt that you would deliberately make calculated percentage of individuals fail re-sits as to justify your decision to the industry?...

 
 Reply 
 
stein
,
Singapore, Joined Jun 2017, 8

stein

,
Singapore,
Joined Jun 2017
8
14:55 Jun-24-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to John at 08:38 Jun-24-2017 .

Consider the situation of certification holder and system established by BINDT,NDTI. Gained certificate from BINDT and renewed again by them , now withdrawal of certificate because of secrete shoppers (not due to audit evident). there is no quality issues or competency issues of certification holder being identified and mentioned in the BINDT portal.
BINDT says that "It is not possible to discriminate between legitimate certificates and invalid certificates" what type of process evaluations it is ?
if BINDT really want to " help end users maintain high levels of safety and reliability is of the utmost importance".
BINDT has to withdraw all the certificates issued through all ATO /AQB (worldwide).
BINDT may need to establish and implement System to evaluate legitimate certificate, then go reaccreditation....,

considering sorry state of certification holder , pl. comment or give suggestions for betterments.

It seems that john words are like competitor to NDTI.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Ken
Ken
02:09 Jun-25-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to stein at 14:55 Jun-24-2017 .

Much has been said on certificate holders, now I like to play devil for NDTI and I have questions on the following:

How many secret shoppers did BINDT use? 100? 1000? or 1?

What is your basis of sampling size and method and what makes it reliable and conclusive that all are crooks and all centres under NDTi are doing malpractices?

How many centres did secret shoppers visit? 1 or all? I heard secret shoppers only did shopping in India.

Being secret shoppers, they have an intent to lure others and they are paid to prove something. Are they reliable because its a conflict of interest. In addition, did they offer something that can be make someone in India take bribes but students will not do that because its beyond their means? If that is the case, its testing beyond the limits. While you may proof something but it something that will unlikely take place. Its as good as saying can all "legitimate" PCN holders pass all extreme mock up test? If some fail under unreasonable conditions, can I claim PCN is a sub standard certification by itself.

Was it a few jokers that took bribes or all? What the percentage?

How many real "rogue" certificate holders did they discover? If none, then I question the quality of "secret shoppers".

Who complained? Competitors or consumers that failed to achieve guarantee results?

Not siding Indians because my wife is not an Indian. My understanding of some Indian culture, they may appear informal, casual and obliging but it does not mean they are not controlling. They may say yes but it does not mean they will do it. They may decide to take a risk hopefully to make the money and then at most refund if the student does fail. This part of the culture exist (I am not declaring it for this case but just highlighting) Has the cultural aspect been taken into consideration to avoid misunderstanding?

Having questioned the above, I am not siding NDTI. I did not buy their company's shares or receive any levy from them. So I really do not care about them. But having seen such flawed and weak system and hasty/questionable decision making, one cannot help but wonder.

BINDT being so "quality and safety conscious", why did BINDT never sent anyone down for the exams? AWS use to send their members from headquarters down with exams papers and test sample in locked metal boxes only to be opened on that day by their HQ members and oversee the whole exam FOR ALL EXAMS. At that time AWS passing rate is only 25%. I am proud to be a CWI under AWS at that time because I am one of the 25%. This is a real life example of quality which existed before for a long time. Do not tell me BINDT has never heard of it? If all of them in BINDT has never heard of it, then they are all clowns and not professionals.

Is it not a conflict of interest for BINDT to approve a centre for both training and exams? But BINDT system allows for this conflict of interest. So if I am a trainer, I can easily wink my eyes when I touching on an exam question. So why?

I can cite many more controls existing in the industry that are better than what BINDT is doing. But I am not paid consultation fees by BINDT. So do not let BINDT tell us they are using best practice in the industry for control and management and malpractices is beyond their control. They have all the tools from the start to do much better.

I sound like I keep hitting BINDT all the time. No its not my intent but there are lots of issues in BINDT itself that need to be addressed. When BINDT is hash to certificate holders, then they need to hold up to a same high standard. Which over here, I am not convinced they are living up to their talk and demand on others.

Look at what BINDT did here? They came in, called names at others, claim victim, threaten their very own certificate holders, did not answer the questions raised here and left.




 
 Reply 
 
Raja
Raja
12:44 Jun-25-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Deb Goutam, at 13:51 Jun-23-2017 .

To BINDT,

I heard that you have made an allegations to NDTI that they are guiding to get fake experience certificates from the candidates.

Every person is filling up the application form while joining the course and we are clearly stating that the Employer Details with Mobile Number, Email Address, Signature of Employer, etc. and so and so details. Its your responsibility to check with the employer before undergone the examination. Did you check with all the candidates before the examination? Its not fair that you are making allegations after 7 years that you are withdrawn the certificates from all the personnel who did in this institute. Do you have a proof that the institute is doing something wrong; make it everything public; show the proof to everyone. If you find something wrong with specific candidate; go ahead with your decision for the specific candidate - not for all.

As a requirement of doing PCN, we need a minimum experience on field in the respective method. Let me give us a open declaration to BINDT that, can they prove that all the candidates who are undergoing PCN in all approved institutes all over the world are having enough experience before undergoing the examination; especially for TOFD & PAUT.

Don't play with the candidates life; its just a money making business you are doing.







 
 Reply 
 
Dharmveer Singh
Other, Manager- NDT
GE Power India Limited, India, Joined Apr 2013, 3

Dharmveer Singh

Other, Manager- NDT
GE Power India Limited,
India,
Joined Apr 2013
3
17:21 Jun-25-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Ken at 02:09 Jun-25-2017 .

Should UKAS not take the status of Certification Body back from BINDT due to numerous major nonconformities of BINDT due to their incompetence?
Is BINDT approaching towards self destructiveness?

1
 
 Reply 
 
Ken
Ken
02:08 Jun-26-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Dharmveer Singh at 17:21 Jun-25-2017 .

I believe there is a clause requiring some serious action on the part on BINDT. All modern accreditation and system including ISO 9712 has such requirements.

UKAST rightfully should act due to such a big issue. On the other hand UKAST can claim they are not aware since it is only published in BINDT website and here, unless someone notify UKAST on this issue. Then they have no choice.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Mats
Mats
07:30 Jun-26-2017
Re: NDT International / BINDT
In Reply to Ken at 02:08 Jun-26-2017 .

So far through this forum the truth is brought public which in my opinion is not job done and everyone should be getting in touch with BINDT in emails requesting explanation and UKAS directly to involve in the matter. Only then we move forward saving innocents due to BINDT's own fault and unfair decision.

1