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- since 1996 -
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Career Discussions
George Crowe
Consultant, AEROSPACE NDT
Self Employed, United Kingdom, Joined May 2013, 30

George Crowe

Consultant, AEROSPACE NDT
Self Employed,
United Kingdom,
Joined May 2013
30
11:05 Sep-01-2017
Blended NDT video training - The future?

Having been instructing aerospace NDT for some thirty plus years, I now face the dilemma of moving to on-line training and all it's ramifications.

I have always been pragmatic and felt that if the NDT qualification exams were properly managed controlled and audited the training will look after itself. Accordingly, I would argue that the acceptance of the format and delivery of on-line NDT training is much based on the preference of the customer and student if properly and professionally presented. Certainly, video theory training is the future, just based on it's cost-effectiveness. A student on full pay away from he's country or place of work having travelled across the world on subsistence and staying in a 3-star hotel cannot compete cost-effectively with a progressive desktop course taken at the students pace at his place of work or home.

So, what is the big hype?

Generally, a profound and natural reluctance to change and some arguments about instructor-student rapport are all I can see........But, at what price? Comments are welcomed.

 
 Reply 
 
Sergio Montalvo
Other,
Undisclosed, USA, Joined Oct 2015, 17

Sergio Montalvo

Other,
Undisclosed,
USA,
Joined Oct 2015
17
13:45 Sep-01-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to George Crowe at 11:05 Sep-01-2017 (Opening).

I tend to be reluctant of online training. I think that there is a lot that is lost in doing online training. The constant feed back between student and instructor is lost and therefore creates the lack of true understanding of theory. I can see doing online training for the basic methods: ie: MT and PT.
I have used the ASNT flash drive training but find it lacking a detailed approach to the methods.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 747

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
747
04:35 Sep-03-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to George Crowe at 11:05 Sep-01-2017 (Opening).

The main issue with on-line training is practical training. I still am not sure nor convinced the effectiveness of on- line practicals. One being angle beam UT of welds and then other methods also.

1
 
 Reply 
 
George Crowe
Consultant, AEROSPACE NDT
Self Employed, United Kingdom, Joined May 2013, 30

George Crowe

Consultant, AEROSPACE NDT
Self Employed,
United Kingdom,
Joined May 2013
30
16:36 Sep-03-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to Anmol Birring at 04:35 Sep-03-2017 .

The effectiveness surely depends on both the training efficacy of the videos and the individual student. However, like all training, if the qualification is not achieved the training must be primarily to blame. The exam results soon sort out any poor performance resulting from instruction. I like you however, feel that blended training needs practical hands-on training in the programme. Its the overall price to achieve the objectives reliably that surely must bring video training forward for theory training and practical demonstration.

 
 Reply 
 
bob
bob
17:05 Sep-04-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to George Crowe at 16:36 Sep-03-2017 .

Ive just done Painting Inspection online training and i knew little to nothing about it prior to doing it.

After completing the repetitive course i still know very little but i'm £1400 out of pocket.

Its just another way of cutting corners from courses that are already too short as it is, so companies can cut costs and make further profits at the expense of the student as the courses aren't any cheaper.

Can get people signed up from around the planet as well for these courses so the scope to extract people training budgets goes worldwide.

Some online tuition prior to the course and in addition to hands on classroom training would be helpful, but not instead of.

 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 747

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
747
03:51 Sep-06-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to George Crowe at 16:36 Sep-03-2017 .

If someone can learn swimming on-line, then I will believe NDT can be taught on-line. Just like learning to swim requires jumping in a pool, NDT requires training on samples with representative flaws. Yes, on-line training certificates can be issued, but not sure how good they are.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Steven Doc
Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy, Egypt, Joined Feb 2011, 187

Steven Doc

Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy,
Egypt,
Joined Feb 2011
187
15:57 Sep-06-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to Anmol Birring at 03:51 Sep-06-2017 .

Guys, its Blended training not exclusively online training. Blended training must be complemented with structured classroom training and practical exercises.
I think it is most definitely the future.

1
 
 Reply 
 
George Crowe
Consultant, AEROSPACE NDT
Self Employed, United Kingdom, Joined May 2013, 30

George Crowe

Consultant, AEROSPACE NDT
Self Employed,
United Kingdom,
Joined May 2013
30
18:28 Sep-06-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to Steven Doc at 15:57 Sep-06-2017 .

What if the pass for the theory was guaranteed by the supplier of the video theory course so you could repeat it if you did not score a course pass mark? If a forum was available for open discussion with other students and an experienced instructor while you followed the video course? If there were banks of practice questions for every session of say 30 minutes or more? if you could do it at home, at your office or on the train? If the course was supported by blended practical training at your place of work and the cost saving to whoever paid was 50% off the price of classroom theory training? And what if the course was good enough to give you confidence of a great pass mark in your qualifying examinations from a recognised examination centre? Definitely the future!!

 
 Reply 
 
Steven Doc
Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy, Egypt, Joined Feb 2011, 187

Steven Doc

Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy,
Egypt,
Joined Feb 2011
187
19:09 Sep-06-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to George Crowe at 18:28 Sep-06-2017 .

George, it's blended training not examinations. To go one step further, certification does not guarantee competency when training us imparted through all available methods.

Once upon a time the dinosaurs believed they were the most advanced life form and would be around forever.

 
 Reply 
 
George Crowe
Consultant, AEROSPACE NDT
Self Employed, United Kingdom, Joined May 2013, 30

George Crowe

Consultant, AEROSPACE NDT
Self Employed,
United Kingdom,
Joined May 2013
30
20:12 Sep-06-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to Steven Doc at 19:09 Sep-06-2017 .

Hi Stephen, Are you suggesting that some examinations leading to certification do not guarantee competency to the employer in the method of NDT? I hope we do not qualify doctors, pilots or NDT inspectors like that?

 
 Reply 
 
Steven Doc
Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy, Egypt, Joined Feb 2011, 187

Steven Doc

Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy,
Egypt,
Joined Feb 2011
187
20:21 Sep-06-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to George Crowe at 20:12 Sep-06-2017 .

George,
I'm not suggesting I'm stating as fact.
NDT Certification is no different to a Driving Licence. It only tells us that on the date of examination the holder had the knowledge and skills adequate to pass the respective examination. Some guys pass with 80% some with 97%, they both get the same certificate.
Among an entire population of Drivers Licence there are huge variations in the degree of competency. So much so that sometimes you wonder how some of them got a licence. The same way you would not lend your car to another driver without personally knowing his competency as an employer of NDT Technicians the Employer would be crazy foolish to allow any Technician to start testing under his brand without first personally checking his competency.

1
 
 Reply 
 
George Crowe
Consultant, AEROSPACE NDT
Self Employed, United Kingdom, Joined May 2013, 30

George Crowe

Consultant, AEROSPACE NDT
Self Employed,
United Kingdom,
Joined May 2013
30
20:40 Sep-06-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to Steven Doc at 20:21 Sep-06-2017 .

Hi Steven, Wow! That is a far reaching and worrying statement. One that I Personally do not believe is true for NDT anyway. Yes there are different competencies as there are in all walks and professions of life. The examination schemes for NDT that I deal in are generally fit for purpose. I hope so as the employers in my NDT world accept the qualification and/or certification without question or full NDT knowledge as an approval by the profession

 
 Reply 
 
Steven Doc
Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy, Egypt, Joined Feb 2011, 187

Steven Doc

Other, Quality Manager
Siemens Energy,
Egypt,
Joined Feb 2011
187
20:48 Sep-06-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to George Crowe at 20:40 Sep-06-2017 .

No worries George, worrying for you, fact of life for me. NET has as many laggards as any other industry, therefore no NDT tech tests on our sites without first proving competency, on site.

 
 Reply 
 
William Jensen
Other,
IHI Southwest Technologies, Inc., USA, Joined May 2017, 65

William Jensen

Other,
IHI Southwest Technologies, Inc.,
USA,
Joined May 2017
65
15:36 Sep-11-2017
Re: Blended NDT video training - The future?
In Reply to Steven Doc at 15:57 Sep-06-2017 .

I can't see anything other than true blended (i.e., online PLUS mandatory classroom / lab work) actually working. I've done some "virtual" UT hands-on practice and, no matter what the programmers said, that's not the same as physically scanning a sample, especially when it comes to skewing, etc. Those types of skills cannot be taught online or through a computer program.

 
 Reply 
 

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