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Mohammad Shishani
,
JAC, Jordan, Joined Mar 2018, 13

Mohammad Shishani

,
JAC,
Jordan,
Joined Mar 2018
13
09:01 May-31-2018
Instructor vs examiner

can the Level III course instructor be the examiner as well for the same course, if not can you provide me with the regulation that prevents that.



thank you in advance

 
 Reply 
 
William A Jensen
Other,
IHI Southwest Technologies, Inc., USA, Joined May 2017, 65

William A Jensen

Other,
IHI Southwest Technologies, Inc.,
USA,
Joined May 2017
65
12:41 May-31-2018
Re: Instructor vs examiner
In Reply to Mohammad Shishani at 09:01 May-31-2018 (Opening).

It would depend on the Code or Standard that you are working to, but in the case of ASNT (CP-189 or TC-1-A), there are no prohibitions on an Instructor also doing examination work as long as they are certified in the method.
Regards,

1
 
 Reply 
 
James Scalf
NDT Inspector,
Global Integrity, Canada, Joined Oct 2012, 273

James Scalf

NDT Inspector,
Global Integrity,
Canada,
Joined Oct 2012
273
16:47 Jun-01-2018
Re: Instructor vs examiner
In Reply to William A Jensen at 12:41 May-31-2018 .

William,

I may be interpreting this wrong but I believe, that for the purposes of certification, ISO prohibits the individual that performed the instruction from being the individual who performs the examination of the candidate. You cited the SNT TC-1-A as an example, this is supposed to be compliant to ISO 9712 which clearly states under paragraph 8.4.6 that "An examiner SHALL NOT be permitted to examine any candidate:

a) that he/she has trained for the examination for a period of two years from the date of the conclusion of the training activities;

b) who is working (permanently or temporarily) in the same facility as the examiner."

Granted there are some other certification schemes out there that I may not be aware of that differ from compliance to ISO 9712 but all of the ones I know of SNT TC-1-A, NAS 410, EN 3179, CGSB 48-9712 etc. all state compliance to the ISO 9712 standard so the above clause would be applicable.

Again maybe my interpretation is skewed. Cheers...

James

1
 
 Reply 
 
William A Jensen
Other,
IHI Southwest Technologies, Inc., USA, Joined May 2017, 65

William A Jensen

Other,
IHI Southwest Technologies, Inc.,
USA,
Joined May 2017
65
16:58 Jun-01-2018
Re: Instructor vs examiner
In Reply to James Scalf at 16:47 Jun-01-2018 .

James,

I mis-read the original question and thought they were asking about performing examinations, NOT administering examinations.

You're correct, most of the newer standards prohibit the person who instructed to test the individual. However, earlier standards allow for that.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Rafid O. López
, NDT Level 3
Mexico, Joined Jan 2010, 79

Rafid O. López

, NDT Level 3
Mexico,
Joined Jan 2010
79
18:03 Jun-01-2018
Re: Instructor vs examiner
In Reply to William A Jensen at 16:58 Jun-01-2018 .

Mohammad, you need remember that exists many standards: NAS410, SNT-TC-1A, ISO9712, etc. What standard are you referring to?

Depending on each standard the requirements changes.

Commonly (NAS410 & SNT-TC-1A), examiners and instructors are designated or approved in writing by the Responsible level 3 and yes, this individual can be the same person.

This is very common with snt-tc-1a courses, are imparted by a instructor (non Level 3) at the end of the course, the individuals are examined by the same instructor (examiner) and final documents are signed by a Level 3, this is a common practice.

I do not agree with this practice, because all process (course and examinations) must be performed by a Level 3.

 
 Reply 
 
Mohammad Shishani
,
JAC, Jordan, Joined Mar 2018, 13

Mohammad Shishani

,
JAC,
Jordan,
Joined Mar 2018
13
03:19 Jun-02-2018
Re: Instructor vs examiner
In Reply to Rafid O. López at 18:03 Jun-01-2018 .

Thank you all for your responses.
I'm in the aerospace industry so mostly I'm concerned with NAS410 & EN4179.
I went through EN4179 and there is only brief explanation for both but nothing regarding the same person being the instructor and the examiner.
The reason for my original question is that in bith standards an outside agency is used for certification as long as a level 3 provide a written practice that specifies the requirements. But that outside agency sending a level 3 with some specimens for training and certicertifications in the MRO or abywhere other than the institute does not sound right.
Because i know that the training location, testers, standards and test pieces, instructor and the examiner shall be authorized by a national board that the certificatez will be issued on their behalf.
Am i right about that. Because i can't seem to find the documents that clearly state that.

Thank you again

 
 Reply 
 

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