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- since 1996 -
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Technical Discussions
Roberto Bellomio
IMSA, Argentina, Joined Feb 2019, 2

Roberto Bellomio

IMSA,
Argentina,
Joined Feb 2019
2
20:53 May-14-2019
Ultrasonic test austenitic cast steels
zoom image



Hi, tks for all. i want to ask whats norm can i use to UT Test in this material. attached drawing

 
 Reply 
 
Pedro A. Serruto Gamboa
Director, Level II UT, PT
Red Code Quality, Peru, Joined Sep 2013, 87

Pedro A. Serruto Gamboa

Director, Level II UT, PT
Red Code Quality,
Peru,
Joined Sep 2013
87
02:24 May-15-2019
Re: Ultrasonic test austenitic cast steels
In Reply to Roberto Bellomio at 20:53 May-14-2019 (Opening).

Dear Roberto, are you looking for an acceptance criteria or method of inspection? You can try to read ASME V Art. 5: Ultrasonic Examination Methods for Materials (for Methods of inspections) and for acceptance criteria, you have to make and agreement with the customer the most of the times, or what say the manufacturer.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Clair D'El Rei
NDT Inspector,
I am looking for a new opportunity in the labor market and I accept proposals from other countries i, Brazil, Joined Feb 2019, 15

Clair D'El Rei

NDT Inspector,
I am looking for a new opportunity in the labor market and I accept proposals from other countries i,
Brazil,
Joined Feb 2019
15
16:49 May-15-2019
Re: Ultrasonic test austenitic cast steels
In Reply to Roberto Bellomio at 20:53 May-14-2019 (Opening).

I agree with what the colleague commented on, but it is also necessary to check which design standard the piece or equipment is designed for.

 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 776

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
776
17:17 May-18-2019
Re: Ultrasonic test austenitic cast steels
In Reply to Roberto Bellomio at 20:53 May-14-2019 (Opening).

Very difficult material to inspect. You will nee to use L-waves only and low freq

 
 Reply 
 
tiziano ceccon
Consultant,
Italy, Joined Feb 2011, 14

tiziano ceccon

Consultant,
Italy,
Joined Feb 2011
14
14:25 May-20-2019
Re: Ultrasonic test austenitic cast steels
In Reply to Anmol Birring at 17:17 May-18-2019 .

Ultrasonic testing of cast austenitic stainless steel is not basically feasible expecially on the piece in object. I point up "cast " and not "hot rolled or forging of ASS". There is a lot of reason why this methode is not applicable. In particular: (1) a cast structure of ASS have a highest dB/mm attenuation (2) the kind of solidification ( from liquid to solid) generates a particular structural morphology made of coarse grains and large dendrites resulting in highest noise. In other words no back ground echo .(3) Even using a low frequency longitudinal probe such as F= 0,5 - 1 Mhz , you should be forced to use large diameter one and this is not applicable to the piece of this thickness due the large width of the pulse and/or dead zone. Finally, the orientation of cast structure will give a different results in terms of dB /mm.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Roberto Bellomío
IMSA, Argentina, Joined Feb 2019, 2

Roberto Bellomío

IMSA,
Argentina,
Joined Feb 2019
2
20:46 May-20-2019
Re: Ultrasonic test austenitic cast steels
In Reply to tiziano ceccon at 14:25 May-20-2019 .

Download Norma CCh-70-3

Hello, thank you for your answers, I agree with tiziano ceccon, I could not find any rule about it.
I share this document with you as a suggestion by Pedro A. Serruto Gamboa.
Regards.-
Roberto.
 
 Reply 
 
tiziano ceccon
Consultant,
Italy, Joined Feb 2011, 14

tiziano ceccon

Consultant,
Italy,
Joined Feb 2011
14
15:44 May-21-2019
Re: Ultrasonic test austenitic cast steels
In Reply to Roberto Bellomío at 20:46 May-20-2019 .

Roberto,
the annex Norma is not applicable to cast austenic stainless steel (ASS). Just a look to page 44 you can verify that it refers to ferritic and martensitic SS. In the same Norma, it make not sense the sentence refered to cast austenitic and duplex SS at pag.43 ( ""Special measured must be specified by parts involved""). Special measured means "miracle" ? Why not inform that cast austenitic SS cannot be test by UT due to the reasons reperted to my previous mail ? A minimum of knowledge of metallurgie of stainless steels should be required to technicians (3 level) that generate this Norma.

 
 Reply 
 
BRUNO ZILLI
Italy, Joined Apr 2018, 7

BRUNO ZILLI

Italy,
Joined Apr 2018
7
20:55 May-21-2019
Re: Ultrasonic test austenitic cast steels
In Reply to tiziano ceccon at 15:44 May-21-2019 .

Download Ass castings

Hello Roberto

Yes I agree with the comments before. This is not a trivial issue, but I trust the idea that the harder is the job, the more intresting is.
Please take a trip on the doc I've attached. If you think this doc intresting for your task, Ive got some references for probe producers I tested in a recent past.

Regards

Bruno Zilli
Level 3 ut

 
 Reply 
 
tiziano ceccon
Consultant,
Italy, Joined Feb 2011, 14

tiziano ceccon

Consultant,
Italy,
Joined Feb 2011
14
15:44 May-22-2019
Re: Ultrasonic test austenitic cast steels
In Reply to BRUNO ZILLI at 20:55 May-21-2019 .

Bruno, thank you for EJAM Annex.
As you know there is a lot of technical papers about this subject in NDT.net and the conclusion of these papers are +/- the same.
About EJAM annex, the Authors do not inform about the kind of ASS of Nuclear reactor in service. They said is the same of specimens. It is important to know the steel grade because , during the service, there is a precipitation phases and/or intermetallics in austenitic structure and at interface ferrite stingers/austenitic grains.The UT waves have a different behaviour in these conditions. Therefore, UT wave propagation and coeficient of attenaution ( dB/mm) could be very different. Just to say that the results obtained in the specimens could be very "far " when compared to the structure of reactor in service. An austenic grade such as 316 will have a structural different behaviour compared to a Super-austenitic or Ni -alloy structure. All thes ones have a austenitic structure but their structure ,after long lasting aging, will be different also in terms of behaviour in UT testing due to intermetallics, phase and coarse grain and so on. At end of story, the CASS is one of UT trouble even if the PA and next/future probles will reduce difficulties and inprove the capabilty of indications capabiltiy.

 
 Reply 
 
BRUNO ZILLI
Italy, Joined Apr 2018, 7

BRUNO ZILLI

Italy,
Joined Apr 2018
7
17:54 May-22-2019
Re: Ultrasonic test austenitic cast steels
In Reply to tiziano ceccon at 15:44 May-22-2019 .

Hello Tiziano

Yes the didnt specify the metallurgical structure, they noticed that the test had been made on both welded and thermically aged cass. To do a complete report, they should have reported the grain size and intermetallic phases. Probably they did it.
But in my opinion the conlclusion is intresting for us. The pod with traditional ut would be high, and sizing with customized double large probes too.
Now, it's up to Roberto. If the work is worth, there are producers around the world to make such probes.
Had He needed some references, I would have been glad to give him some names.

Regards

Bruno Zilli

 
 Reply 
 

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