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- since 1996 -
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Technical Discussions
Steve
USA, Joined Aug 2017, 5

Steve

USA,
Joined Aug 2017
5
18:49 Aug-22-2017
Question on the Use of Refractometers

This is sort of a two-part question-
1.) Can refractometers only be used for hydrophilic emulsifiers? (If so- why?) How about checking the concentration of a mag particle bath?
2.) Are centrifuges the only way to properly test mag particle bath concentrations?

 
 Reply 
 
Godfrey Hands
Consultant,
PRI Nadcap, United Kingdom, Joined Nov 1998, 306

Godfrey Hands

Consultant,
PRI Nadcap,
United Kingdom,
Joined Nov 1998
306
08:58 Aug-28-2017
Re: Question on the Use of Refractometers
In Reply to Steve at 18:49 Aug-22-2017 (Opening).

Refractometers can be used for several different applications, such as water based penetrants, lipophilic and hydrophilic emulsifiers, degreasing fluids etc., and are used to evaluate the concentration of SOLUTIONS.
Mag Particle suspensions are not solutions. Here you have particles SUSPENDED in a carrier fluid. "Concentrations" here should be measured with a centrifuge tube.
I suggest you see ASTM E 1444 which explains about Centrifuge tubes.

 
 Reply 
 
Steve
USA, Joined Aug 2017, 5

Steve

USA,
Joined Aug 2017
5
16:04 Aug-28-2017
Re: Question on the Use of Refractometers
In Reply to Godfrey Hands at 08:58 Aug-28-2017 .

Thanks, Godfrey! I'll be sure to look at ASTM E 1444.

 
 Reply 
 
Dana Wilson
Dana Wilson
20:36 Jun-06-2019
Re: Question on the Use of Refractometers
In Reply to Godfrey Hands at 08:58 Aug-28-2017 .

No MT cannot be used. But another issue with Emulsifiers should be brought up. Fine lines in the brix grid and wide somewhat fuzzy solution demarcation was a problem for us. So we did a blind study of the same emulsifier and got widely varying data from 4 different inspectors. We then went with a digital refractometer, and this solved the consistency problem.

 
 Reply 
 
Steve K
USA, Joined Aug 2017, 5

Steve K

USA,
Joined Aug 2017
5
23:26 Jun-06-2019
Re: Question on the Use of Refractometers
In Reply to Godfrey Hands at 08:58 Aug-28-2017 .

If using a refractometer on a water-based penetrant such as Magnaflux's SKL-4C, what is it we're looking for? Is the point to ensure the concentration isn't overly contaminated? How do we know when it's too contaminated? Are there any written standards for using refractometers for liquid penetrant solutions?

 
 Reply 
 
Godfrey Hands
Consultant,
PRI Nadcap, United Kingdom, Joined Nov 1998, 306

Godfrey Hands

Consultant,
PRI Nadcap,
United Kingdom,
Joined Nov 1998
306
08:45 Jun-07-2019
Re: Question on the Use of Refractometers
In Reply to Steve K at 23:26 Jun-06-2019 .


Steve,
Look at ASTM E 1417. section 7.8.2.3 which says:
7.8.2.3 Water Content of Water-Based Water-Washable
Penetrants—The water content of water-based Method A
penetrants shall be checked at the intervals specified in Table 1
using a refractometer. The water content must be maintained
according to the manufacturer’s recommendation

The period defined is "Monthly".


Regarding penetrant contamination:

7.8.2.1 Penetrant Contamination—The in-use penetrant materials
shall be viewed as specified in Table 1 to determine if
any of the following conditions are evident: precipitates, waxy
deposits, white coloration, surface scum, or any other evidence of contamination or breakdown. When any of the above
conditions are determined to be detrimental, the material shall
be discarded or otherwise corrected, as appropriate.

here the defined period is "Daily"

Hope that helps.

Godfrey

 
 Reply 
 
Steve K.
USA, Joined Aug 2017, 5

Steve K.

USA,
Joined Aug 2017
5
20:22 Jun-11-2019
Re: Question on the Use of Refractometers
In Reply to Godfrey Hands at 08:45 Jun-07-2019 .

Hi Godfrey,
I have one more question in regards to the use of refractometers - even though I'm an NDT supplier I've been getting requests for refractometers from construction companies. These companies build a wide range of buildings from retail space to churches. I can't find out why they need them. I've asked them directly but unfortunately the only individual who returns my emails/phone-calls is a buyer and they don't know what exactly they're used for.

 
 Reply 
 
Rick Lopez
R & D,
John Deere - Moline Technology Innovation Center, USA, Joined Jul 2011, 191

Rick Lopez

R & D,
John Deere - Moline Technology Innovation Center,
USA,
Joined Jul 2011
191
01:00 Jun-12-2019
Re: Question on the Use of Refractometers
In Reply to Steve K. at 20:22 Jun-11-2019 .

Steve,
Not sure if this is related, but after digging around online I see that an ASTM standard exists for "Determining Nonvolatile Matter (Total Solids) in Floor Polishes": ASTM D4095. Maybe this is what your construction industry customers are checking?
https://www.astm.org/Standards/D4095.htm

 
 Reply 
 
Godfrey Hands
Consultant,
PRI Nadcap, United Kingdom, Joined Nov 1998, 306

Godfrey Hands

Consultant,
PRI Nadcap,
United Kingdom,
Joined Nov 1998
306
09:08 Jun-12-2019
Re: Question on the Use of Refractometers
In Reply to Steve K. at 20:22 Jun-11-2019 .

Sorry Steve,
I have no idea, except to say that refractometers are used to measure solution concentrations.
Could possibly be the concentration of an additive which is added to water for concrete, but that is just a guess.

Godfrey

 
 Reply 
 

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