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- since 1996 -
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Technical Discussions
Robert Taylor
,
Australia, Joined Jun 2019, 11

Robert Taylor

,
Australia,
Joined Jun 2019
11
01:17 Jun-22-2019
Ut of set through nozzle

Hi guys I was wondering with you could give me your opinions on the following topic. While scanning a set through nozzle or set on nozzle for that matter.... Obviously you scan full and half skip from the prepped side to cover the weld volume. If there is access to the internal bore a 0 degree probe is used to inspect the weld volume and the fusion face for lack of fusion along with full skip with a 45 degree probe. My question is if there is no access to the internal bore of the pipe would you see a lack of fusion on this face full skipping with a 60 and 70 from the prepped side? And also is there a thickness I.e under 20mm that you couldn’t use a 45 degree probe to skip in and check the fusion face of the un-prepped side? Any answers and discussion would be much appreciate!

Rob

 
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Andrej
ApplusRtd, Lithuania, Joined May 2019, 9

Andrej

ApplusRtd,
Lithuania,
Joined May 2019
9
07:27 Jun-22-2019
Re: Ut of set through nozzle
In Reply to Robert Taylor at 01:17 Jun-22-2019 (Opening).

Hi Rob.

Usually in procedure you have a table for structure welds with WT and Probes to be used.

Do you have it?

 
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ashok kumar patra
,
Saudi K-KEM Engineering service co, Saudi Arabia, Joined May 2018, 55

ashok kumar patra

,
Saudi K-KEM Engineering service co,
Saudi Arabia,
Joined May 2018
55
11:54 Jun-22-2019
Re: Ut of set through nozzle
In Reply to Robert Taylor at 01:17 Jun-22-2019 (Opening).

Mr Rob,

You can scan from nozzle side also to find LOF.

 
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Robert Taylor
,
Australia, Joined Jun 2019, 11

Robert Taylor

,
Australia,
Joined Jun 2019
11
14:40 Jun-22-2019
Re: Ut of set through nozzle
In Reply to Andrej at 07:27 Jun-22-2019 .

I don’t know what procedure the scanning would be to as it’s not been given to me as yet. Was more of a query for now. I’m just wondering if I would see a lack of fusion skipping into the un-prepped side of the weld with a 60 and 70 (green sound path) or would the sound just bounce of the fusion face and disperse into the material?

 
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Paul Holloway
Consultant,
Holloway NDT & Engineering Inc , Canada, Joined Apr 2010, 242

Paul Holloway

Consultant,
Holloway NDT & Engineering Inc ,
Canada,
Joined Apr 2010
242
16:05 Jun-22-2019
Re: Ut of set through nozzle
In Reply to Robert Taylor at 14:40 Jun-22-2019 .

Hi Robert,

If you're trying to shoot through the prepped face and detect LOF on the unprepped side with the green 60/70 beam... yeah that's going to be tough. You'll likely get more sound that bounces off any LOF then up into the cap and scattered, than you will any direct reflection back to your probe.

But, real LOF isn't necessarily aligned perfectly with the plate edges. It could easily be skewed a few degrees due to melting of the pass into the parent material. in that case, it might be okay.

 
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Robert Taylor
,
Australia, Joined Jun 2019, 11

Robert Taylor

,
Australia,
Joined Jun 2019
11
16:13 Jun-22-2019
Re: Ut of set through nozzle
In Reply to Paul Holloway at 16:05 Jun-22-2019 .

Thanks very much for your reply mate! Yes I assumed the sound would deflect off the un-prepped side and disperse into the cap etc. Hence why if there is no access to the internal bore to use a 0 degree (usually there is not on a header etc) then skipping into that face with the 45 would be good to pick up a LOF. Can I ask one more question to you.... using the 45 degree probe to check for LOF would there be a minimum thickness of plate where the 45 wouldn’t really be useful? As in most cases with single V butt welds etc material under 25mm is generally scanned with a 60 and 70. Any info is much appreciated.

 
 Reply 
 
Paul Holloway
Consultant,
Holloway NDT & Engineering Inc , Canada, Joined Apr 2010, 242

Paul Holloway

Consultant,
Holloway NDT & Engineering Inc ,
Canada,
Joined Apr 2010
242
18:46 Jun-22-2019
Re: Ut of set through nozzle
In Reply to Robert Taylor at 16:13 Jun-22-2019 .

zoom image



I'm assuming you are referring to something like the image shown. I don't think any single angle beam pulse echo probe would be a perfect match for LOF on the unbeveled surface. Very little sound will return to the probe and that nasty corner trap at the bottom will only confound things. But things are rarely perfect anyways, and we have to either follow the code or in cases where you're doing procedure development, perform a qualification test.

I've done a pitch-catch pair before, which won't tell you of course exactly *where* the discontinuity is, but if there's loss of signal between the two and it won't show up in PE mode from the vertical nozzle face, there's a pretty good chance it's mid-wall LOF as shown. Surface breaking LOF on the ID should show up on a pulse echo inspection from the vertical nozzle face (using a higher angle to get underneath the weld), and LOF that connects to the OD of the shell (closest to the lower probe) will show up with MPI.
 
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Robert Taylor
,
Australia, Joined Jun 2019, 11

Robert Taylor

,
Australia,
Joined Jun 2019
11
19:08 Jun-22-2019
Re: Ut of set through nozzle
In Reply to Paul Holloway at 18:46 Jun-22-2019 .

Thanks very much Paul! The effort you have gone to is much appreciated! It’s the first time iv posted on here so I’m happy I joined!! Cheers

 
 Reply 
 
Mario Talarico
NDT Inspector,
Italy, Joined May 2010, 423

Mario Talarico

NDT Inspector,
Italy,
Joined May 2010
423
13:19 Jun-23-2019
Re: Ut of set through nozzle
In Reply to Robert Taylor at 19:08 Jun-22-2019 .

zoom image

Planar opposite side bevel

Robert, Paul,
I share all the precautions expressed in this post. It is much better to stay within the limits of our method than to spread false expectations. I can perhaps reinforce what has already been said.

To check the behavior of a planar in weld I once made a sample of T-Joint not penetrated, size 25x50, as in the figure. At the time it seemed to me the easiest way to make a planar, without the presence of volumetric parts. With manual scan on both sides half skip, using 4Mhz 8x9 probes and half skip scanning, I remember this:
-45 °. Presence of continuous reflection located in ends 1 and 2, with amplitude peaks equal to a 3 mm SDH reflector. No signal from the rest of the planar defect section 1-2 (not accessible). This is functional to the dimensions and configuration of the part, evident from the scan-plane (blue lines).
-60 °. I note a situation opposite to the 45 ° probe: that is an important geometric reflection signal from the welding cap ‘G’ and signal loss at the end 1 and 2. Still no signal from the rest of the defect section 1-2, not even the accessibility half skip was allowed (red lines).
-70 °. Birth of mini-signals, roughly 10-15%, insistent, along the whole extension of the defec section 1-2 covered by the probe. In the case of manual scanning, therefore, the amplitude of the signals does not lead one to suspect the presence of a large extended planar. I think we can attribute this weak indication to the roughness of the 50 mm thick sheet. Also for this probe I have a blurred memory of 2 signals (one of which is large) in the same zone of geometry and defect end, and I don't remember the analysis well.

The idea that I had made (for once quite consistent with the scanning plan!) was that the unexpected signal at the end 1 and 2, however constant and on the two sides, was to be attributed to the way the defect was made ( I assumed the emergence of some irregularities during the first pass due to the action of welding). Instead I have memorized the absence of important signals 60 ° and 70 ° from the body of the defect !!

Here is a small paradox: normally the geometrical indications are the scarecrow and cause of ruin for the UT-men career; in this case instead - for manual scanning and without the zero scan - the only important and certain testimony of the enormous defect 1-2 would be the big and constant geometric signal from G, normally absent and not justified without the presence of the planar 1 -2 which induces a deviation of the UT path.
Greetings
Mario
 
 Reply 
 
Robert Taylor
,
Australia, Joined Jun 2019, 11

Robert Taylor

,
Australia,
Joined Jun 2019
11
16:46 Jun-23-2019
Re: Ut of set through nozzle
In Reply to Mario Talarico at 13:19 Jun-23-2019 .

Thanks for your reply mario. It’s just the geometry of the un-prepped side that is the issue. Full skipping into the weld from the prepped side on a set in or set through nozzle is fine for volumetric and planar defects within the weld. But with regards to the fusion face on the un-prepped side of the weld is the issue (if there is no access to the internal bore to use a 0 degree probe) which in my experience is a regular occurrence. If there is no access to the internal bore to use a 0 degree probe it would be very difficult to pick up a LOF on the un-prepped side.

 
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