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Technical Discussions
B K Muduli
B K Muduli
04:45 May-13-2005
Can UT substitute RT

Can RT be substituted by UT for refinery piping operating at 300-400 deg C carrying inflamable liquid a failure of which can cause immediate fire?


    
 
 Reply 
 
Jan Verkooijen
Director,
Sonovation, Netherlands, Joined Nov 1998, 29

Jan Verkooijen

Director,
Sonovation,
Netherlands,
Joined Nov 1998
29
00:25 May-14-2005
Re: Can UT substitute RT
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Can RT be substituted by UT for refinery piping operating at 300-400 deg C carrying inflamable liquid a failure of which can cause immediate fire?
------------ End Original Message ------------

We have a long standing experience in high temperature examination of welds. Examples include a reactor vessel weld inspection during service at over 400 C, partially finished )1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 filled) weld inspection during fabrication, thickness up to 140 mm at preheat temperatures.

Every high temperature inspection must be assessed on its own however, as safety aspects, geometry, material type, weld configuration, detection limits and accuracy requirements all play a large role in the success of the inspection. With some more details of the requirements we can make an initial assessment of the feasibility of a high temperature inspection.

Best regards,

Jan Verkooijen



    
 
 Reply 
 
B K Muduli
Engineering
IOCL, India, Joined Jul 2003, 4

B K Muduli

Engineering
IOCL,
India,
Joined Jul 2003
4
08:43 May-14-2005
Re: Can UT substitute RT
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: : Can RT be substituted by UT for refinery piping operating at 300-400 deg C carrying inflamable liquid a failure of which can cause immediate fire?
: We have a long standing experience in high temperature examination of welds. Examples include a reactor vessel weld inspection during service at over 400 C, partially finished )1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 filled) weld inspection during fabrication, thickness up to 140 mm at preheat temperatures.
: Every high temperature inspection must be assessed on its own however, as safety aspects, geometry, material type, weld configuration, detection limits and accuracy requirements all play a large role in the success of the inspection. With some more details of the requirements we can make an initial assessment of the feasibility of a high temperature inspection.
: Best regards,
: Jan Verkooijen
------------ End Original Message ------------

Pl let me clarify.

We are interested in carrying out UT in lieu of RT in piping under fabrication (at normal temperature) to used in high temperature service.


    
 
 Reply 
 
John O'Brien
Consultant, -
Chevron ETC , USA, Joined Jan 2000, 278

John O'Brien

Consultant, -
Chevron ETC ,
USA,
Joined Jan 2000
278
01:49 May-14-2005
Re: Can UT substitute RT
It will depend on the construction code. ASME for vessels has a code case allowing computer controlled UT in lieu of RT Code Case 2235-5. There was a proposed B31.3 Code Case but I never saw a published version.


    
 
 Reply 
 
Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1268

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1268
03:50 May-14-2005
Re: Can UT substitute RT
John:
I believe you have hit the nail on the head. If this question simply relates to "what does the Code want?" and if the Code now "expects" or requires an assessment at such high temperature, then there are are no options if the project is outside the purview of ASME Section I or VIII which is the only one I am aware of that provides option for UT in lieu of RT via CC2235-6 (and that for construction only, not in-service work).

I certainly like the issue raised by Jan, in particular SAFETY. Not only should the safety of the operating system be considered here! Why doesn't the company with the "concern for the critical nature of the safe operation of the piping" not concern themselves with the safety of the poor technician that is supposed to go up to a 400C pipe and make a critical assessment of its service-abililty?

Seems to me that the safety of the operation of the pipe is actually overshadowed by the concern for how much it would cost in lost product to shut down and do the job safely and with some reasonable expectation of accuracy. Is Mr. Muduli working to a Code that actually expects 400C inspections to be so "routine" that that a critical engineering assessment can be made by the results of RT (or UT) under these conditions?

Ed



----------- Start Original Message -----------
: It will depend on the construction code. ASME for vessels has a code case allowing computer controlled UT in lieu of RT Code Case 2235-5. There was a proposed B31.3 Code Case but I never saw a published version.
------------ End Original Message ------------




    
 
 Reply 
 
Godfrey Hands
Consultant,
PRI Nadcap, United Kingdom, Joined Nov 1998, 302

Godfrey Hands

Consultant,
PRI Nadcap,
United Kingdom,
Joined Nov 1998
302
08:50 May-15-2005
Re: Can UT substitute RT
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Can RT be substituted by UT for refinery piping operating at 300-400 deg C carrying inflamable liquid a failure of which can cause immediate fire?
------------ End Original Message ------------

Hi Guys,
What are you looking for on this piping? Is it corrosion, weld defects or what?

Corrosion and cracking that is not adjacent to welds can possibly be inspected with Guided Wave ultrasonics.
I assume here that if the piping is at 300 to 400 Celsius, it is insulated to reduce heat losses.
The MsS Guided Wave Ultrasonics from the South West Research Institute (SwRI) in San Antonio, Texas is certainly able to detect significant corrosion and cracking at distances of sometimes in excess of 100 metres. This can test piping which is under insulation, and once the sensors have been installed, the insulation can be replaced.
Testing then involves connecting the instrument to the plug that protrudes from the insulation, and performing a test.
Thesensors themselves are MagnetoStrictive, so will not be influenced by temperatures in the order of 400 Celsius.
Would probably need to install on cold pipe however, due to the safety aspects.
NDT Consultants Ltd. in the UK is working with SwRI outside of the USA.

The other Guided Wave ultrasonic systems (Teletest and GUL) use Piezo transducers, so these will be affected by the temperature, plus the high cost of sensors prohibits permanent installation.


    
 
 Reply 
 

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