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- since 1996 -

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Technical Discussions
Mehmet Bal
Consultant
Turkey, Joined Nov 2003, 7

Mehmet Bal

Consultant
Turkey,
Joined Nov 2003
7
02:29 Nov-28-2003
Thickness IQI Based on

Can any one answer the following: 2 inches but weld is radiograped eliptically. The wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinsforcemnt is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276 what will be the thickness that the penetrameter based on. In another way the thickness that the penetrameter based on will be (8.71mm+1.6mm=10.31mm) or (8.71mm+8.71mm+1.6mm=19.02mm)?
Mehmet Bal

Zeki Cosku Gokce
Zeki Cosku Gokce
05:48 Nov-29-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
Mehmet Bey,

According to ASME-V article-2 T-276 (a) The thickness on which the IQI is based on the nominal single wall thickness plus the estimated weld reinforcement.. Actual weld measurement of the weld reinforcement is not required.
So in your case (10.31 mm) you can use set B type of panateremeter.

Zeki Cosku Gokce

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Can any one answer the following: 2 inches but weld is radiograped eliptically. The wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinsforcemnt is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276 what will be the thickness that the penetrameter based on. In another way the thickness that the penetrameter based on will be (8.71mm+1.6mm=10.31mm) or (8.71mm+8.71mm+1.6mm=19.02mm)?
: Mehmet Bal
------------ End Original Message ------------

Engineering, Inspection
Arco Industrial, S.A., Panama, Joined Nov 2001, 44

Engineering, Inspection
Arco Industrial, S.A.,
Panama,
Joined Nov 2001
44
05:14 Nov-30-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Can any one answer the following: 2 inches but weld is radiograped eliptically. The wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinsforcemnt is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276 what will be the thickness that the penetrameter based on. In another way the thickness that the penetrameter based on will be (8.71mm+1.6mm=10.31mm) or (8.71mm+8.71mm+1.6mm=19.02mm)?
: Mehmet Bal
------------ End Original Message ----------

The correct thickness to base the IQI selection on is the 10.31mm, (one wall thickness plus reinforcement), however, for the elliptical shot be sure to calculate the Geometric Unsharpness (Ug) using the outside diameter of the pipe, as you must be able to discern details in both the portion of the weld facing the source, and the portion of the weld facing the film. The IQI placement shuold be on the source side of the pipe. Be as generous as you can in your source to object distance to get the sharpest shot possible.

Ed T.
Ed T.
00:26 Dec-07-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Mehmet Bey,
: According to ASME-V article-2 T-276 (a) The thickness on which the IQI is based on the nominal single wall thickness plus the estimated weld reinforcement.. Actual weld measurement of the weld reinforcement is not required.
: So in your case (10.31 mm) you can use set B type of panateremeter.
: Zeki Cosku Gokce
: : Can any one answer the following: 2 inches but weld is radiograped eliptically. The wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinsforcemnt is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276 what will be the thickness that the penetrameter based on. In another way the thickness that the penetrameter based on will be (8.71mm+1.6mm=10.31mm) or (8.71mm+8.71mm+1.6mm=19.02mm)?
: : Many Thanks in advance
: : Mehmet Bal

I would like to add my opinion on this issue. This has been debated often in the past. The correct thickness for your shot is thesingle nominal wall thickness plus the maximum reinforcement allowed by the referencing code section. In your case you have 1.6 mm on the face and 1.6mm on the root. Therefore, your correct thickness is 11.91mm. I have an interprepretation on this by ASME B31.3 code comittee which clearly states the height of reinforcement is for each face of the weld and can be added together when determining penetrameter requirements for radiographing girth welds.
------------ End Original Message ------------

Zeki Cosku Gokce
Zeki Cosku Gokce
08:02 Dec-10-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
Ed

Can you give little more specific about the interpretation year, edition etc....
Regards

Zeki

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: : Mehmet Bey,
: : According to ASME-V article-2 T-276 (a) The thickness on which the IQI is based on the nominal single wall thickness plus the estimated weld reinforcement.. Actual weld measurement of the weld reinforcement is not required.
: : So in your case (10.31 mm) you can use set B type of panateremeter.
: : Zeki Cosku Gokce
: : : Can any one answer the following: 2 inches but weld is radiograped eliptically. The wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinsforcemnt is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276 what will be the thickness that the penetrameter based on. In another way the thickness that the penetrameter based on will be (8.71mm+1.6mm=10.31mm) or (8.71mm+8.71mm+1.6mm=19.02mm)?
: : : Many Thanks in advance
: : : Mehmet Bal
: Iwould like to add my opinion on this issue. This has been debated often in the past. The correct thickness for your shot is the single nominal wall thickness plus the maximum reinforcement allowed by the referencing code section. In your case you have 1.6 mm on the face and 1.6mm on the root. Therefore, your correct thickness is 11.91mm. I have an interprepretation on this by ASME B31.3 code comittee which clearly states the height of reinforcement is for each face of the weld and can be added together when determining penetrameter requirements for radiographing girth welds.
------------ End Original Message ------------

Sasaki
Sasaki
01:50 Dec-11-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
The "interpretation" of ASME Section V clearly defines the "Material thickness" in question.

The height of weld reinforcement at both sides of plate is applicable to X-groove weld ONLY.

Therefore, 10.31mm is a correct "material thickness", pipe wall thickness plus outside weld reinforcement height, for IQI selection.

Mehmet Bal
Consultant
Turkey, Joined Nov 2003, 7

Mehmet Bal

Consultant
Turkey,
Joined Nov 2003
7
00:19 Dec-11-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
Thank you very much Dear All who deals with the thichness which the penetrameter depends on, I would like give requirements of MIL-STD-453C,
5.8.5 Double wall exposures: For double wall radiography where both walls are to be inspected, a penetrameter shall be placed corresponding to the double wall thickness on the source side of the upper wall in such a manner that it is subject to the same maximum distortion and magnification as any area of the part to be inspected. The maximum source to film distance shall be based on the outside diameter of the tube or pipe. When impractical to do the above, a double wall thickness penetrameter may be placed on the source side of a block equivalent to the combined thickness of both walls..........Which is the contradiction of ASME_v. Some other contradiction of explanations:
1. (ASNT Continuing Education Radiography Method pp.150): IT IS GENRALLY REQURED THAT THE MAERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER BE EQUAL TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED.
2. (GENERAL DYNAMICS Programmed Instruction Handbook Volume-IV pp.6-78): IT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT THAT THE AMOUNT OF MATERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER IS EQUAL IN THICKNESS TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED.

Some

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Ed
: Can you give little more specific about the interpretation year, edition etc....
: Regards
: Zeki
: : : Mehmet Bey,
: : : According to ASME-V article-2 T-276 (a) The thickness on which the IQI is based on the nominal single wall thickness plus the estimated weld reinforcement.. Actual weld measurement of the weld reinforcement is not required.
: : : So in your case (10.31 mm) you can use set B type of panateremeter.
: : : Zeki Cosku Gokce
: : : : Can any one answer the following: 2 inches but weld is radiograped eliptically. The wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinsforcemnt is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276 what will be the thickness that the penetrameter based on. In another way the thickness that the penetrameter based on will be (8.71mm+1.6mm=10.31mm) or (8.71mm+8.71mm+1.6mm=19.02mm)?
: : : : Looking forward to have your answer with appreciation.
: : : : Many Thanks in advance
: : : : Mehmet Bal
: : I would like to add my opinion on this issue. This has been debated often in the past. The correct thickness for your shot is the single nominal wall thickness plus the maximum reinforcement allowed by the referencing code section. In your case you have 1.6 mm on the face and 1.6mm on the root. Therefore, your correct thickness is 11.91mm. I have an interprepretation on this by ASME B31.3 code comittee which clearly states the height of reinforcement is for each face of the weld and can be added together when determining penetrameter requirements for radiographing girth welds.
------------ End Original Message ------------

S.V.Swamy
Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex , India, Joined Feb 2001, 787

S.V.Swamy

Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex ,
India,
Joined Feb 2001
787
05:35 Dec-15-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
Dear Mehmet Bal,

I don't see any basic problem. When you first wrote that the pipe is being shot with an elliptic exosure, it was clear that it is a double-wall double image exposure. So, the IQI has to be based on the thickness of both the walls and the reinforcements of one weld. That would truly represent the metal path. Since any discontinuity in the pipe nearer to the source will have the maximum unsharpness, the IQI needs to be placed on the OD of the pipe nearest to the Source. If that is not feasible, a hollow block of the thickness and the diameter of the pipe should be used and the technique validated.

The other replies were based on the assumption of a double-wall Single Image technique.

Regards.

Swamy

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Thank you very much Dear All who deals with the thichness which the penetrameter depends on, I would like give requirements of MIL-STD-453C,
: 5.8.5 Double wall exposures: For double wall radiography where both walls are to be inspected, a penetrameter shall be placed corresponding to the double wall thickness on the source side of the upper wall in such a manner that it is subject to the same maximum distortion and magnification as any area of the part to be inspected. The maximum source to film distance shall be based on the outside diameter of the tube or pipe. When impractical to do the above, a double wall thickness penetrameter may be placed on the source side of a block equivalent to the combined thickness of both walls..........Which is the contradiction of ASME_v. Some other contradiction of explanations:
: 1. (ASNT Continuing Education Radiography Method pp.150): IT IS GENRALLY REQURED THAT THE MAERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER BE EQUAL TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED.
: 2. (GENERAL DYNAMICS Programmed Instruction Handbook Volume-IV pp.6-78): IT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT THAT THE AMOUNT OF MATERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER IS EQUAL IN THICKNESS TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED.
: Some
: : Ed
: : Can you give little more specific about the interpretation year, edition etc....
: : Regards
: : Zeki
: : : : Mehmet Bey,
: : : : According to ASME-V article-2 T-276 (a) The thickness on which the IQI is based on the nominal single wall thickness plus the estimated weld reinforcement.. Actual weld measurement of the weld reinforcement is not required.
: : : : So in your case (10.31 mm) you can use set B type of panateremeter.
: : : : Zeki Cosku Gokce
: : : : : Can any one answer the following: 2 inches but weld is radiograped eliptically. The wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinsforcemnt is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276 what will be the thickness that the penetrameter based on. In another way the thickness that the penetrameter based on will be (8.71mm+1.6mm=10.31mm) or (8.71mm+8.71mm+1.6mm=19.02mm)?
: : : : : Looking forward to have your answer with appreciation.
: : : : : Many Thanks in advance
: : : : : Mehmet Bal
: : : I would like to add my opinion on this issue. This has been debated often in the past. The correct thickness for your shot is the single nominal wall thickness plus the maximum reinforcement allowed by the referencing code section. In your case you have 1.6 mm on the face and 1.6mm on the root. Therefore, your correct thickness is 11.91mm. I have an interprepretation on this by ASME B31.3 code comittee which clearly states the height of reinforcement is for each face of the weld and can be added together when determining penetrameter requirements for radiographing girth welds.
------------ End Original Message ------------

Mehmet Bal
Consultant
Turkey, Joined Nov 2003, 7

Mehmet Bal

Consultant
Turkey,
Joined Nov 2003
7
01:48 Dec-15-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
Dear Mr. S.V. Swamy,
This subject was originated by me. Would you please read original message and specifically answer wy question. What wil be the thicness that the penetrameter is based for 8.71 mm wall thickness of 2 inches elipticall shot? 10.31 mm or 19.02 mm i.a.w ASME T-276. Many thanks for your reply.
Mehmet Bal
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Dear Mehmet Bal,
: I don't see any basic problem. When you first wrote that the pipe is being shot with an elliptic exosure, it was clear that it is a double-wall double image exposure. So, the IQI has to be based on the thickness of both the walls and the reinforcements of one weld. That would truly represent the metal path. Since any discontinuity in the pipe nearer to the source will have the maximum unsharpness, the IQI needs to be placed on the OD of the pipe nearest to the Source. If that is not feasible, a hollow block of the thickness and the diameter of the pipe should be used and the technique validated.
: The otherreplies were based on the assumption of a double-wall Single Image technique.
: Regards.
: Swamy
: : Thank you very much Dear All who deals with the thichness which the penetrameter depends on, I would like give requirements of MIL-STD-453C,
: : 5.8.5 Double wall exposures: For double wall radiography where both walls are to be inspected, a penetrameter shall be placed corresponding to the double wall thickness on the source side of the upper wall in such a manner that it is subject to the same maximum distortion and magnification as any area of the part to be inspected. The maximum source to film distance shall be based on the outside diameter of the tube or pipe. When impractical to do the above, a double wall thickness penetrameter may be placed on the source side of a block equivalent to the combined thickness of both walls..........Which is the contradiction of ASME_v. Some other contradiction of explanations:
: : 1. (ASNT Continuing Education Radiography Method pp.150): IT IS GENRALLY REQURED THAT THE MAERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER BE EQUAL TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED.
: : 2. (GENERAL DYNAMICS Programmed Instruction Handbook Volume-IV pp.6-78): IT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT THAT THE AMOUNT OF MATERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER IS EQUAL IN THICKNESS TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED.
: : Some
: : : Ed
: : : Can you give little more specific about the interpretation year, edition etc....
: : : Regards
: : : Zeki
: : : : : Mehmet Bey,
: : : : : According to ASME-V article-2 T-276 (a) The thickness on which the IQI is based on the nominal single wall thickness plus the estimated weld reinforcement.. Actual weld measurement of the weld reinforcement is not required.
: : : : : So in your case (10.31 mm) you can use set B type of panateremeter.
: : : : : Regrads,
: : : : : Zeki Cosku Gokce
: : : : : : Can any one answer the following: 2 inches but weld is radiograped eliptically. The wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinsforcemnt is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276 what will be the thickness that the penetrameter based on. In another way the thickness that the penetrameter based on will be (8.71mm+1.6mm=10.31mm) or (8.71mm+8.71mm+1.6mm=19.02mm)?
: : : : : : Looking forward to have your answer with appreciation.
: : : : : : Many Thanks in advance
: : : : : : Mehmet Bal
: : : : I would like to add my opinion on this issue. This has been debated often in the past. The correct thickness for your shot is the single nominal wall thickness plus the maximum reinforcement allowed by the referencing code section. In your case you have 1.6 mm on the face and 1.6mm on the root. Therefore, your correct thickness is 11.91mm. I have an interprepretation on this by ASME B31.3 code comittee which clearly states the height of reinforcement is for each face of the weld and can be added together when determining penetrameter requirements for radiographing girth welds.
------------ End Original Message ------------

S.V.Swamy
Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex , India, Joined Feb 2001, 787

S.V.Swamy

Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex ,
India,
Joined Feb 2001
787
05:34 Dec-16-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
Dear Mehmet Bal,

Thanks for the repply. I am forwarding this mail to my office address so that I can check up the relevant section. But I would say that it should be 19.02 mm, since it should include both the walls.

Regards.

Swamy

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Dear Mr. S.V. Swamy,
: This subject was originated by me. Would you please read original message and specifically answer wy question. What wil be the thicness that the penetrameter is based for 8.71 mm wall thickness of 2 inches elipticall shot? 10.31 mm or 19.02 mm i.a.w ASME T-276. Many thanks for your reply.
: Mehmet Bal
: : Dear Mehmet Bal,
: : I don't see any basic problem. When you first wrote that the pipe is being shot with an elliptic exosure, it was clear that it is a double-wall double image exposure. So, the IQI has to be based on the thickness of both the walls and the reinforcements of one weld. That would truly represent the metal path. Since any discontinuity in the pipe nearer to the source will have the maximum unsharpness, the IQI needs to be placed on the OD of the pipe nearest to the Source. If that is not feasible, a hollow block of the thickness and the diameter of the pipe should be used and the technique validated.
: : The other replies were based on the assumption of a double-wall Single Image technique.
: : Regards.
: : Swamy
: : : Thank you very much Dear All who deals with the thichness which the penetrameter depends on, I would like give requirements of MIL-STD-453C,
: : : 5.8.5 Double wall exposures: For double wall radiography where both walls are to be inspected, a penetrameter shall be placed corresponding to the double wall thickness on the source side of the upper wall in such a manner that it is subject to the same maximum distortion and magnification as any area of the part to be inspected. The maximum source to film distance shall be based on the outside diameter of the tube or pipe. When impractical to do the above, a double wall thickness penetrameter may be placed on the source side of a block equivalent to the combined thickness of both walls..........Which is the contradiction of ASME_v. Some other contradiction of explanations:
: : : 1. (ASNT Continuing Education Radiography Method pp.150): IT IS GENRALLY REQURED THAT THE MAERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER BE EQUAL TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED.
: : : 2. (GENERAL DYNAMICS Programmed Instruction Handbook Volume-IV pp.6-78): IT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT THAT THE AMOUNT OF MATERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER IS EQUAL IN THICKNESS TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED.
: : : Some
: : : : Ed
: : : : Can you give little more specific about the interpretation year, edition etc....
: : : : Regards
: : : : Zeki
: : : : : : Mehmet Bey,
: : : : : : According to ASME-V article-2 T-276 (a) The thickness on which the IQI is based on the nominal single wall thickness plus the estimated weld reinforcement.. Actual weld measurement of the weld reinforcement is not required.
: : : : : : So in your case (10.31 mm) you can use set B type of panateremeter.
: : : : : : Regrads,
: : : : : : Zeki Cosku Gokce
: : : : : : : Can any one answer the following: 2 inches but weld is radiograped eliptically. The wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinsforcemnt is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276 what will be the thickness that the penetrameter based on. In another way the thickness that the penetrameter based on will be (8.71mm+1.6mm=10.31mm) or (8.71mm+8.71mm+1.6mm=19.02mm)?
: : : : : : : Looking forward to have your answer with appreciation.
: : : : : : : Many Thanks in advance
: : : : : : : Mehmet Bal
: : : : : I would like to add my opinion on this issue. This has been debated often in the past. The correct thickness for your shot is the single nominal wall thickness plus the maximum reinforcement allowed by the referencing code section. In your case you have 1.6 mm on the face and 1.6mm on the root. Therefore, your correct thickness is 11.91mm. I have an interprepretation on this by ASME B31.3 code comittee which clearly states the height of reinforcement is for each face of the weld and can be added together when determining penetrameter requirements for radiographing girth welds.
------------ End Original Message ------------

steve hornby
NDT Inspector, NDT Manager
BAE SYSTEMS, SUBMARINES, United Kingdom, Joined Nov 2003, 4

steve hornby

NDT Inspector, NDT Manager
BAE SYSTEMS, SUBMARINES,
United Kingdom,
Joined Nov 2003
4
03:00 Dec-16-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Dear Mehmet Bal,
: Thanks for the repply. I am forwarding this mail to my office address so that I can check up the relevant section. But I would say that it should be 19.02 mm, since it should include both the walls.
: Regards.
: Swamy
: : Dear Mr. S.V. Swamy,
: : This subject was originated by me. Would you please read original message and specifically answer wy question. What wil be the thicness that the penetrameter is based for 8.71 mm wall thickness of 2 inches elipticall shot? 10.31 mm or 19.02 mm i.a.w ASME T-276. Many thanks for your reply.
: : Mehmet Bal
: : : Dear Mehmet Bal,
: : : I don't see any basic problem. When you first wrote that the pipe is being shot with an elliptic exosure, it was clear that it is a double-wall double image exposure. So, the IQI has to be based on the thickness of both the walls and the reinforcements of one weld. That would truly represent the metal path. Since any discontinuity in the pipe nearer to the source will have the maximum unsharpness, the IQI needs to be placed on the OD of the pipe nearest to the Source. If that is not feasible, a hollow block of the thickness and the diameter of the pipe should be used and the technique validated.
: : : The other replies were based on the assumption of a double-wall Single Image technique.
: : : Regards.
: : : Swamy
: : : : Thank you very much Dear All who deals with the thichness which the penetrameter depends on, I would like give requirements of MIL-STD-453C,
: : : : 5.8.5 Double wall exposures: For double wall radiography where both walls are to be inspected, a penetrameter shall be placed corresponding to the double wall thickness on the source side of the upper wall in such a manner that it is subject to the same maximum distortion and magnification as any area of the part to be inspected. The maximum source to film distance shall be based on the outside diameter of the tube or pipe. When impractical to do the above, a double wall thickness penetrameter may be placed on the source side of a block equivalent to the combined thickness of both walls..........Which is the contradiction of ASME_v. Some other contradiction of explanations:
: : : : 1. (ASNT Continuing Education Radiography Method pp.150): IT IS GENRALLY REQURED THAT THE MAERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER BE EQUAL TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED.
: : : : 2. (GENERAL DYNAMICS Programmed Instruction Handbook Volume-IV pp.6-78): IT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT THAT THE AMOUNT OF MATERIAL UNDER THE PENETRAMETER IS EQUAL IN THICKNESS TO THE THICKNESS OF THE MATERIAL BEING RADIOGRAPHED.
: : : : Some
: : : : : Ed
: : : : : Can you give little more specific about the interpretation year, edition etc....
: : : : : Regards
: : : : : Zeki
: : : : : : : Mehmet Bey,
: : : : : : : According to ASME-V article-2 T-276 (a) The thickness on which the IQI is based on the nominal single wall thickness plus the estimated weld reinforcement.. Actual weld measurement of the weld reinforcement is not required.
: : : : : : : So in your case (10.31 mm) you can use set B type of panateremeter.
: : : : : : : Regrads,
: : : : : : : Zeki Cosku Gokce
: : : : : : : : Can any one answer the following: 2 inches but weld is radiograped eliptically. The wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinsforcemnt is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276 what will be the thickness that the penetrameter based on. In another way the thickness that the penetrameter based on will be (8.71mm+1.6mm=10.31mm) or (8.71mm+8.71mm+1.6mm=19.02mm)?
: : : : : : : : Looking forward to have your answer with appreciation.
: : : : : : : : Many Thanks in advance
: : : : : : : : Mehmet Bal
: : : : : : I would like to add my opinion on this issue. This has been debated often in the past. The correct thickness for your shot is the single nominal wall thickness plus the maximum reinforcement allowed by the referencing code section. In your case you have 1.6 mm on the face and 1.6mm on the root. Therefore, your correct thickness is 11.91mm. I have an interprepretation on this by ASME B31.3 code comittee which clearly states the height of reinforcement is for each face of the weld and can be added together when determining penetrameter requirements for radiographing girth welds.
------------ End Original Message -------The key to the number of walls selected to calculate IQI sensitivity is quite straight forward. It is based on the number of walls to be viewed ie DWDI 2 walls & DWSI 1 wall. What may be confusing you is the penetrated thickness you need to know when selecting the correct KV range. Both DWDI & DWSI require both walls to be considered for KV selection. With SWSI only the 1 wall is taken into account

Ed T.
Ed T.
08:37 Dec-19-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
Mr. Sasaki, you mention "the ASME Section V "interpretation". Which interpretation are you talking about? If there is an interpretation which contradicts the one I have, I sure would like to see it. It would be very interesting to hear ASME's response to that.

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: The "interpretation" of ASME Section V clearly defines the "Material thickness" in question.
: The height of weld reinforcement at both sides of plate is applicable to X-groove weld ONLY.
: Therefore, 10.31mm is a correct "material thickness", pipe wall thickness plus outside weld reinforcement height, for IQI selection.
------------ End Original Message ------------

N. Kuppusamy
Consultant, NDT Level-III Engineer
Advanced Inspection & Testing (S) Pte Ltd, Singapore, Joined Dec 2003, 34

N. Kuppusamy

Consultant, NDT Level-III Engineer
Advanced Inspection & Testing (S) Pte Ltd,
Singapore,
Joined Dec 2003
34
03:01 Dec-22-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
Hi,

According to ASME Section-V Article -2 Para T276.2, Table T276 and Article-2 Nonmandatory Appendix-A (Technique sketches for pipe or tube welds, Page 50 ASME Sec.V 2001 Edition), the penetrameter thickness shall be based on nominal single wall thickness (T276.2a) + single reinforcement (if applicable, T276.2b) for elliptical technique.

In your case the wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinforcement is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276b, the thickness for penetrameter selection shall be based on 10.31mm (i.e., 8.71+1.6). Therefore according to Table T-276 & Table T-33.2, the IQI shall be ASTM 1B.

N.Kuppusamy

S.V.Swamy
Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex , India, Joined Feb 2001, 787

S.V.Swamy

Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex ,
India,
Joined Feb 2001
787
05:12 Dec-23-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
Dear Sri Kuppuswamy garu,

Thank you for explaining the proviso of Article 276. Though on first reading, it looked to me to be wrong, on further analysis it looks to be correct. I give below my reasoning for thinking it is correct. Pl. tell me whether I am correct.

The elliptical technique involves a slightly inclined exposure of the pipe weld so that the upper half of the pipe is imaged adjacent to but away from the lower half. The circle of the pipe cross-section is converted to an ellipse.

So, as far as the exposure for getting correct density in the film is concerned, the thickness to be taken into account is two times the wall thickness and two times the weld reinforcement (OD and ID side reinforcements if applicable, otherwise one reinforcement on the OD side as aplicable).

But as far as the selection of the IQI is concerned, the image being evaluated represents a single wall, plus the reinforcement in the weld. If ID side reinforcement is not there, OD side only is to be added. Thus one wallplus one reinforcement is appropriate, to demonstrate the sensitivity of the technique.

This was a tough case and I am happy that you posted the actual article.

Thanks and regards.

Swamy

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Hi,
: According to ASME Section-V Article -2 Para T276.2, Table T276 and Article-2 Nonmandatory Appendix-A (Technique sketches for pipe or tube welds, Page 50 ASME Sec.V 2001 Edition), the penetrameter thickness shall be based on nominal single wall thickness (T276.2a) + single reinforcement (if applicable, T276.2b) for elliptical technique.
: In your case the wall thickness is 8.71 mm and weld reinforcement is 1.6mm. In accordance with ASME-V article-2 T-276b, the thickness for penetrameter selection shall be based on 10.31mm (i.e., 8.71+1.6). Therefore according to Table T-276 & Table T-33.2, the IQI shall be ASTM 1B.
: N.Kuppusamy
------------ End Original Message ------------

Sasaki
Sasaki
05:00 Dec-26-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
For info.
The wire type IQI like JIS or DIN should be selected based on double wall thicknesses plus double weld reinforcements.

Mehmet Bal
Consultant
Turkey, Joined Nov 2003, 7

Mehmet Bal

Consultant
Turkey,
Joined Nov 2003
7
04:14 Dec-26-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on
Mr. Sasaki, what is your reference. If you are using ASME wire type penetrameter what will be the situation.
Mehmet Bal
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: For info.
: The wire type IQI like JIS or DIN should be selected based on double wall thicknesses plus double weld reinforcements.
------------ End Original Message ------------

Sasaki
Sasaki
01:13 Dec-27-2003
Re: Thickness IQI Based on

Choice of either hole type IQI or wire type IQI is depending on the statutory or contractual requirement.

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