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Technical Discussions
terry anson
terry anson
02:18 Feb-06-2001
Selecting a transducer for fruit maturity project

I am working on my senior project at Fresno State. This project
was assigned to me, and I know very little about ultrasound. I
am to use ultrasound to determine if a given fruit is ripe or not.
My main area of concern is in selecting the proper transducer. I
do not want to end up having to buy 4 or 5 different types before
finding one that is suitable. Any help or advice would be
appreciated.
Terry


 
 Reply 
 
Dave Utrata
Dave Utrata
02:39 Feb-06-2001
Re: Selecting a transducer for fruit maturity project
I think what you'll have to concern yourself with most is frequency. This sort of work makes us of 500-250 kHz transducers due to attenuation. Beyond that, suitable sample diamter will determine transducer diamter. One tip: low freuency transducers may sometimes be small active elements in a bigger housing, so talk to the manufacturer about this.


: I am working on my senior project at Fresno State. This project
: was assigned to me, and I know very little about ultrasound. I
: am to use ultrasound to determine if a given fruit is ripe or not.
: My main area of concern is in selecting the proper transducer. I
: do not want to end up having to buy 4 or 5 different types before
: finding one that is suitable. Any help or advice would be
: appreciated.
: Terry
.



 
 Reply 
 
Rolf Diederichs
Director,
NDT.net, Germany, Joined Nov 1998, 608

Rolf Diederichs

Director,
NDT.net,
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
608
08:21 Feb-06-2001
Re: Selecting a transducer for fruit maturity project
In September 2000 we had already a similar topic in this forum,
see "ultrasonic propagation in APPLES" http://www.ndt.net/wshop/forum/messages/2103.htm
Dr. Amos Mizrach from the Institute of Agricultural Engineering
posted his opinion.
Contact details can be found at his profile page:
http://www.ndt.net/wshop/profile/profiles/356.htm

Rolf

: I am working on my senior project at Fresno State. This project
: was assigned to me, and I know very little about ultrasound. I
: am to use ultrasound to determine if a given fruit is ripe or not.
: My main area of concern is in selecting the proper transducer. I
: do not want to end up having to buy 4 or 5 different types before
: finding one that is suitable. Any help or advice would be
: appreciated.
: Terry
.



 
 Reply 
 
Tom Nelligan
Engineering,
retired, USA, Joined Nov 1998, 390

Tom Nelligan

Engineering,
retired,
USA,
Joined Nov 1998
390
05:27 Feb-06-2001
Re: Selecting a transducer for fruit maturity project
: I am working on my senior project at Fresno State. This project
: was assigned to me, and I know very little about ultrasound. I
: am to use ultrasound to determine if a given fruit is ripe or not.
: My main area of concern is in selecting the proper transducer. I
: do not want to end up having to buy 4 or 5 different types before
: finding one that is suitable. Any help or advice would be
: appreciated.
: Terry
.

Remember that you not only need to select the proper transducer, but also the proper pulser to drive it. Fruits are VERY attenuating as a sound transmission medium compared with the engineering materials that industrial UT equipment is designed for. You will need a pair of low frequency contact transducers (100 to 500 KHz) for a through transmission setup, and a high energy, high gain pulser/receiver to drive the transmitter and amplify the signal from the receiver. We're among the companies that can supply both, if you're interested.

--Tom Nelligan
www.panametrics.com



 
 Reply 
 
terry
terry
01:39 Feb-06-2001
Re: Selecting a transducer for fruit maturity project
Thanks for all the help and input. I appreciate it. I looked through
your online catalog. I would prefer an air coupled transducer, but I
was unable to find any low frequency narrowband air coupled tranducers.
Is it wishful thinking on my part to try to find such a trancducer that
would be of use in this type of application?
terry
.
: Remember that you not only need to select the proper transducer, but also the proper pulser to drive it. Fruits are VERY attenuating as a sound transmission medium compared with the engineering materials that industrial UT equipment is designed for. You will need a pair of low frequency contact transducers (100 to 500 KHz) for a through transmission setup, and a high energy, high gain pulser/receiver to drive the transmitter and amplify the signal from the receiver. We're among the companies that can supply both, if you're interested.
.
: --Tom Nelligan
: www.panametrics.com
.



 
 Reply 
 
Dipl.-Ing. Martin Heinz
Dipl.-Ing. Martin Heinz
09:12 Feb-07-2001
Re: Selecting a transducer for fruit maturity project
: Thanks for all the help and input. I appreciate it. I looked through
: your online catalog. I would prefer an air coupled transducer, but I
: was unable to find any low frequency narrowband air coupled tranducers.
: Is it wishful thinking on my part to try to find such a trancducer that
: would be of use in this type of application?
: terry
: .
Try contact Mahesh Bhardwaj of Ultran / Secondwave Systems at mcbhardwaj@aol.com. They are specialists in non-contact UT.

Best regards,

Martin Heinz.



 
 Reply 
 
Dr. Amos Mizrach
Engineering, R&D
Institute of Agricultural Engineering - The Volcani Center, Israel, Joined Oct 1999, 3

Dr. Amos Mizrach

Engineering, R&D
Institute of Agricultural Engineering - The Volcani Center,
Israel,
Joined Oct 1999
3
00:20 Feb-07-2001
Re: Selecting a transducer for fruit maturity project
The frequency and the power of signal are really the most important parameters for your purposes. You have got good advices by other readers as well. However, don't forget the major actors in that research that are the kind of fruit or vegetable you intend to work with and the path length inside it. For example, potatoes can work with 200 KHz and 40 mm but apples need less than 100 KHz and you will be able to penetrate 5 mm or so. For further information I suggest my article in the Elsevier journal - Ultrasonic 38(2000) 717-722.

Good luck
Dr. Amos Mizrach

: I am working on my senior project at Fresno State. This project
: was assigned to me, and I know very little about ultrasound. I
: am to use ultrasound to determine if a given fruit is ripe or not.
: My main area of concern is in selecting the proper transducer. I
: do not want to end up having to buy 4 or 5 different types before
: finding one that is suitable. Any help or advice would be
: appreciated.
: Terry
.



 
 Reply 
 
Rolf Diederichs
Director,
NDT.net, Germany, Joined Nov 1998, 608

Rolf Diederichs

Director,
NDT.net,
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
608
08:34 Feb-07-2001
Re: Selecting a transducer for fruit maturity project
and a high energy, high gain pulser/receiver to drive the transmitter and amplify the signal from the receiver. We're among the companies that can supply both, if you're interested.
: .
: : --Tom Nelligan
: : www.panametrics.com
: .
.



 
 Reply 
 
Rolf Diederichs
Director,
NDT.net, Germany, Joined Nov 1998, 608

Rolf Diederichs

Director,
NDT.net,
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
608
09:05 Feb-07-2001
Re: Selecting a transducer for fruit maturity project
d velocity measurements. * Food products: A wide variety of tests have been reported, including age
of eggs and potatoes, ripeness of fruits, fat content in beef, and percent of solids in milk. Generally these tests are both
nondestructive and non-contaminating. * Polymerization in plastics ...
http://www.panametrics.com/div_ndt/pages/theory/material.shtml

Regards
Rolf Diederichs

: I'm not sure where you searched.
: You can find via the List of Keywords of the exhibition catalog search
: the following results of companies:
.
: Keyword: transducers
: SEARCH RESULTS: 23
.
: Air-coupled transducers
: SEARCH RESULTS: 7
.



 
 Reply 
 
ehsan rouhani
ehsan rouhani
02:31 Mar-01-2002
Re: Selecting a transducer for fruit maturity project
: : Thanks for all the help and input. I appreciate it. I looked through
: : your online catalog. I would prefer an air coupled transducer, but I
: : was unable to find any low frequency narrowband air coupled tranducers.
: : Is it wishful thinking on my part to try to find such a trancducer that
: : would be of use in this type of application?
: : terry
: : .
: Try contact Mahesh Bhardwaj of Ultran / Secondwave Systems at mcbhardwaj@aol.com. They are specialists in non-contact UT.
.
: Best regards,
.
: ehsan rouhani
.



 
 Reply 
 

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