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- since 1996 -
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Technical Discussions
Murty
Murty
16:14 Jul-15-2016
Angle beam inspection

Hello All,
For high thickness welds (for example 90 mm) 45 degree probe is generally used for inspection. Are there any problems, if we use 60 degree probe?
Thank you

 
 Reply 
 
Marcelo
Engineering, UT Level 3
Brazil, Joined Sep 2015, 6

Marcelo

Engineering, UT Level 3
Brazil,
Joined Sep 2015
6
16:31 Jul-15-2016
Re: Angle beam inspection
In Reply to Murty at 16:14 Jul-15-2016 (Opening).

The fact that matter is about the sound path, the longer the SP greater is the loss of energy (attenuation).

A qualified procedure shall be used.

But a rule of thumb it works as long you use a 2 MHz or lower and perform the inspection in the half skip in all the sides.

 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 785

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
785
18:43 Jul-15-2016
Re: Angle beam inspection
In Reply to Murty at 16:14 Jul-15-2016 (Opening).

The primary cause in loss of energy for long sound path is beam spread and not attenuation.
Therefore, for lower beam spread use larger probes. Also, stay with 5 MhHz. Lower frequencies and smaller probes will result in excessive loss from beam spread.

 
 Reply 
 
Ian S
Ian S
18:53 Jul-15-2016
Re: Angle beam inspection
In Reply to Murty at 16:14 Jul-15-2016 (Opening).

Choice of probe angle is not just about thickness, we need to take into account the angle of the weld prep to be examined

 
 Reply 
 
Diego
Consultant,
Freelance, Spain, Joined May 2013, 188

Diego

Consultant,
Freelance,
Spain,
Joined May 2013
188
19:17 Jul-15-2016
Re: Angle beam inspection
In Reply to Murty at 16:14 Jul-15-2016 (Opening).

Murty
You may use a 60º probe. But it is better to use two angle: 45º for all thickness; and 60º material volume within 1/4 of the thickness adjacent to the examination surface.
Of course the angles to be used will also depend of bevel angle.

 
 Reply 
 
THEO MICOTTIS
Italy, Joined May 2013, 81

THEO MICOTTIS

Italy,
Joined May 2013
81
07:11 Jul-16-2016
Re: Angle beam inspection
In Reply to Diego at 19:17 Jul-15-2016 .

One of the probe angles used shall ensure that the weld fusion faces are examined at, or as near as possible to, normal incidence. Strange to read that for high thickness welds is generally used just 45°probe. Which standard do you apply? Regards Theo

 
 Reply 
 
Diego
Consultant,
Freelance, Spain, Joined May 2013, 188

Diego

Consultant,
Freelance,
Spain,
Joined May 2013
188
09:34 Jul-16-2016
Re: Angle beam inspection
In Reply to THEO MICOTTIS at 07:11 Jul-16-2016 .

What I Indicated ("But it is better to use two angle") is a rule of good practice. And it is based on EN 1714, ASTM E 164 and ASME V, Art 4

 
 Reply 
 
THEO MICOTTIS
Italy, Joined May 2013, 81

THEO MICOTTIS

Italy,
Joined May 2013
81
09:52 Jul-16-2016
Re: Angle beam inspection
In Reply to Diego at 09:34 Jul-16-2016 .

Sorry Diego, my reply was for Murty. Theo

 
 Reply 
 
Murty
Murty
13:41 Jul-16-2016
Re: Angle beam inspection
In Reply to THEO MICOTTIS at 09:52 Jul-16-2016 .

Thank you all for your replies.
1. Where ever I see about probe selection, for high thickness 45 degree angle is mentioned.
2. I agree that probe selection should be based on joint preparation. LF may occur at other areas in addition to root and base metal junction. So if we suspect side wall LF we can choose based on edge preparation.
3. I am able to draw DAC's for both 60 degree angle and 45 degree angle. Reflector is 5 mm SDH and frequency is 4 MHz (8x9 mm). My concern is about any mode converted waves interfering with inspection.

Thank you.

 
 Reply 
 
Udo Schlengermann
Consultant, -
Standards Consulting, Germany, Joined Nov 1998, 180

Udo Schlengermann

Consultant, -
Standards Consulting,
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
180
14:23 Jul-16-2016
Re: Angle beam inspection
In Reply to Diego at 09:34 Jul-16-2016 .

Dear colleagues,

in this thread EN 1714 was referenced.
Please note, that EN 1714 is obsolete since more than 15 years.
It is replaced by (European and) International Standard
EN ISO 17640:2010, Non-destructive testing of welds - Ultrasonic testing - Techniques, testing levels, and assessment.
The normative Annex A of EN ISO 17640 contains tables for the minimum required probe positions and beam angles for weld testing on metals:
- scanning from 1 or two sides of the plate,
- scanning from 1 or two sides of the weld,
- using 1 or up to 3 beam angles.

Because International Standards are regularly revised with a 5-year period, EN ISO 17640:2010 is actually again under revision.

With best regards

Udo Schlengermann

 
 Reply 
 
Diego
Consultant,
Freelance, Spain, Joined May 2013, 188

Diego

Consultant,
Freelance,
Spain,
Joined May 2013
188
17:36 Jul-16-2016
Re: Angle beam inspection
In Reply to Udo Schlengermann at 14:23 Jul-16-2016 .

Mr. Schlengermann.

Thank you for your clarification, but for this topic, there is no practically difference between EN 1740 and EN ISO 17640 for butt welded in material thickness = 90 mm.
Please see Tables A1 in both EN 1714 and EN ISO 17640 standards.

Cordial regards.
Diego Martínez del Valle

 
 Reply 
 
Stewart N.
NDT Inspector,
Bureau Veritas Industrial Services, United Arab Emirates (UAE), Joined Jun 2015, 25

Stewart N.

NDT Inspector,
Bureau Veritas Industrial Services,
United Arab Emirates (UAE),
Joined Jun 2015
25
12:58 Jul-18-2016
Re: Angle beam inspection
In Reply to Murty at 16:14 Jul-15-2016 (Opening).

Boss is simple case. Think positive, your beam is constant so it's not changeable. But if your thickness is 20mm and your using a 60 degree probe means , your sound path strike aprox bottom surface means upper section of weld is difficult to inspection on half leg . Ether use second leg or bottom surface. So in heavy thicknes this will be same . So we have to select some type of angle which shall be able to cover aprox meddle half to lower half. Example for 55mm thick . 45 is very suitable to cover meddle and lower half, and 60 is best for upper and middle half

 
 Reply 
 
Ian S
Ian S
14:30 Jul-18-2016
Re: Angle beam inspection
In Reply to Stewart N. at 12:58 Jul-18-2016 .

Stewart N, that's a joke reply.. Right ? I hope it is...

 
 Reply 
 

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