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- since 1996 -
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Technical Discussions
Manjamalai
NDT Inspector, NDT Instructor,Inspector
Ganesha Quality Services, India, Joined Oct 2015, 7

Manjamalai

NDT Inspector, NDT Instructor,Inspector
Ganesha Quality Services,
India,
Joined Oct 2015
7
06:44 Jun-01-2017
Ultrasonic Inspection of Manganese steel material

I,m using Ultrasonic flaw detector Modsonic Eienstien II DGS
We teat on manganese steel alloy material having thickness 110 mm.but there is problem in finding defect... There are so many echoes display.
Anybody can explain how to UT inspect on manganese steel materials thickened 110mm.

 
 Reply 
 
S V Swamy
Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex , India, Joined Feb 2001, 787

S V Swamy

Engineering, - Material Testing Inspection & Quality Control
Retired from Nuclear Fuel Complex ,
India,
Joined Feb 2001
787
08:02 Jun-01-2017
Re: Ultrasonic Inspection of Manganese steel material
In Reply to Manjamalai at 06:44 Jun-01-2017 (Opening).

You have not mentioned the shape of the product being tested, the range setting, the frequency and the diameter of the probe used etc. It may help if the screen shots of the problematic steel and a normal steel are attached.

 
 Reply 
 
Joe Buckley
Joe Buckley
21:54 Jun-01-2017
Re: Ultrasonic Inspection of Manganese steel material
In Reply to Manjamalai at 06:44 Jun-01-2017 (Opening).

Manganese Steels can be very difficult to test. Try as low a frequency probe as you have - often lower than 1 MHz is necessary to get a reasonable backwall - This in turn means that you will only be able to find relatively large defects. Normally only longitudinal waves are transmitted.

Sometimes it is not possible. Good Luck.

Joe

 
 Reply 
 
neil Burleigh
Sales
Krautkramer Australia Pty Ltd, Australia, Joined Dec 2002, 158

neil Burleigh

Sales
Krautkramer Australia Pty Ltd,
Australia,
Joined Dec 2002
158
02:43 Jun-02-2017
Re: Ultrasonic Inspection of Manganese steel material
In Reply to Joe Buckley at 21:54 Jun-01-2017 .

from my experience Joe is correct you need to use as minimum low frequency probes to penetrate manganese steels. it is also recommended that you consider high pulser voltage and a square wave pulser as well.
We have samples here in our lab, approx. 100 mm thick and 1 MHz probes 1 inch diameter have difficulty penetrating.

I do not have any experience with the Modsonic equipment but we have been using Krautkramer UFDs and we still have issues getting a back wall with conventional 1 MHz probes, so trying to find defects would be even more difficult.

Regards
Neil burleigh

 
 Reply 
 
Chris Gartside
Director,
Ultrasonic Sciences Ltd, United Kingdom, Joined Jun 2011, 4

Chris Gartside

Director,
Ultrasonic Sciences Ltd,
United Kingdom,
Joined Jun 2011
4
11:09 Jun-12-2017
Re: Ultrasonic Inspection of Manganese steel material
In Reply to neil Burleigh at 02:43 Jun-02-2017 .

I agree with Joe Buckley. Sometimes it is impossible. In a recent experience with a relatively thin automotive component it was impossible to get a reliable back wall echo at the frequency which is normally used to discriminate between front echo and back wall echo.

 
 Reply 
 
Manjamalai
NDT Inspector, NDT Instructor,Inspector
Ganesha Quality Services, India, Joined Oct 2015, 7

Manjamalai

NDT Inspector, NDT Instructor,Inspector
Ganesha Quality Services,
India,
Joined Oct 2015
7
10:41 Jul-16-2019
Re: Ultrasonic Inspection of Manganese steel material
In Reply to neil Burleigh at 02:43 Jun-02-2017 .

OK I have same problems while testing of manganese steel,can you suggest any any other method to find defect in manganese steel.

 
 Reply 
 
Martin
R & D,
Fraunhofer-Institute for Nondestructive Testing (IZFP), Germany, Joined Nov 2016, 4

Martin

R & D,
Fraunhofer-Institute for Nondestructive Testing (IZFP),
Germany,
Joined Nov 2016
4
15:20 Jul-22-2019
Re: Ultrasonic Inspection of Manganese steel material
In Reply to Joe Buckley at 21:54 Jun-01-2017 .

Hi,

I don´t have any experience with testing manganese steels. So I have a Question for the experts.
Normaly, steels are not a problem for ultrasonic. Ultrasonic for Cast Iron depends a lot on the microstrucure.
What is the difference in manganese steels.Why is it such a problem for ultrasonics? Is it scattering caused by the microstructure or there are some other reasons? Can you name an example of a steel.

Thanks in advance,
Martin

 
 Reply 
 
Neil Burleigh
Sales
Krautkramer Australia Pty Ltd, Australia, Joined Dec 2002, 158

Neil Burleigh

Sales
Krautkramer Australia Pty Ltd,
Australia,
Joined Dec 2002
158
01:59 Jul-23-2019
Re: Ultrasonic Inspection of Manganese steel material
In Reply to Martin at 15:20 Jul-22-2019 .

Hello Martin,
you have in fact basically answered your own question the grain structure of the manganese steel is the inhibitor of sound transmittance.
Also I have found that the attenuation will vary greatly across a test piece as much as 20 dB as you move around a sample that is 150 x 150 mm.
Look at the metallurgy of manganese steel and some micrographs of the grain structure for some better insight.

regards
Neil Burleigh

 
 Reply 
 
bommakanti srinivas
NDT Inspector,
kalva engineers pvt ltd, India, Joined Oct 2012, 33

bommakanti srinivas

NDT Inspector,
kalva engineers pvt ltd,
India,
Joined Oct 2012
33
13:44 Jul-23-2019
Re: Ultrasonic Inspection of Manganese steel material
In Reply to Manjamalai at 06:44 Jun-01-2017 (Opening).


sir

you have not mentioned the shape of the object, which frequency you have used and the probe size as you should b aware that manganese alloy steels are difficult for UT.

 
 Reply 
 
bommakanti srinivas
NDT Inspector,
kalva engineers pvt ltd, India, Joined Oct 2012, 33

bommakanti srinivas

NDT Inspector,
kalva engineers pvt ltd,
India,
Joined Oct 2012
33
13:48 Jul-23-2019
Re: Ultrasonic Inspection of Manganese steel material
In Reply to Manjamalai at 06:44 Jun-01-2017 (Opening).

MR MANJAMALAI

PLEASE go for avaialbel low frequency, larger dia probe but be sure that you are finding only larger flaws.

if not i can suggest you to go for RT as the thickness is 110 mm

 
 Reply 
 
Zach Donovan
Zach Donovan
13:36 Oct-17-2019
Re: Ultrasonic Inspection of Manganese steel material
In Reply to Manjamalai at 10:41 Jul-16-2019 .

PT or RT is the best way. I have worked with manganese all of my life. UT consistently does not work - we had a UT salesman/L 3 that was sure he could get it to read at my foundry. After two days he just walked away. Explosive Depth Hardening will expose most sub-surface defects as well in larger parts. I have only jumped on because I recently read a quality document calling for UT of defects to make a determination, and wanted to be sure no one has found the "unicorn" method of doing this.

 
 Reply 
 

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