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Technical Discussions
Anne
Anne
04:36 Jan-17-2019
without duplex wire on the CR

Is there any standards that duplex wire may be omitted by agreement of the CEO or the contracting parties on the Computed Radiography?


If yes, which standard does this information have?

Also, without using duplex wire method, I would like to know how to determine Basic Special Resolution for Normalized SNR value on the CR.

Thanks in advance for support!

 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 747

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
747
12:16 Jan-19-2019
Re: without duplex wire on the CR
In Reply to Anne at 04:36 Jan-17-2019 (Opening).

Even if some standards may not require duplex wire, you should always use duplex wire for CR and DR. This is essential for spatial resolution that can vary between systems and IP plates

 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 747

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
747
12:19 Jan-19-2019
Re: without duplex wire on the CR
In Reply to Anmol Birring at 12:16 Jan-19-2019 .

And also affected by the laser spot size

 
 Reply 
 
Dr. Uwe Zscherpel
Director,
BAM Berlin, Germany, Joined Jan 2010, 81

Dr. Uwe Zscherpel

Director,
BAM Berlin,
Germany,
Joined Jan 2010
81
09:44 Jan-21-2019
Re: without duplex wire on the CR
In Reply to Anne at 04:36 Jan-17-2019 (Opening).

Hallo Anne,

several strange questions. How to find any standard stating that existing means of quality control should NOT be applied? This makes NO sense.
If you omit the duplex wire IQI, you can not measure the basic spatial resolution. This is the major use of this IQI! Of course, you could rely on the parameters given by your vendor. But good NDT is to measure and confirm....
Best regards
Uwe Z.

 
 Reply 
 
Anne
Anne
11:03 Jan-21-2019
Re: without duplex wire on the CR
In Reply to Dr. Uwe Zscherpel at 09:44 Jan-21-2019 .

Hallo Uwe Z

Thank you for replying me.
I just start to learn about CR.
I'm afraid that my question was not clear.

My vendor want to use wire type IQI(s) instead of duplex wire to measure basic spatial resolution for CR. That's why I've been searching for something relevant through ISO or ASTM standards, but I couldn't find it yet.

I think there are different purposes between wire type IQI and duplex wire.
Can I measure basic spatial resolution only wire IQI(s) instead of duplex wire?

Let me know any information about it. I need to learn more!

 
 Reply 
 
Anne
Anne
11:12 Jan-21-2019
Re: without duplex wire on the CR
In Reply to Anmol Birring at 12:19 Jan-19-2019 .

Hello Anmol Birring

Thanks for replying me.
I just start to learn about CR.
I'm afraid that my question was not clear.

My vendor want to use wire type IQI(s) instead of duplex wire to measure basic spatial resolution for CR. That's why I'm looking for other measurements of Basic Spatial Resolution with wire IQI instead of duplex wire IQI for CR.

If you know something about it, reply me again. Thanks!!

 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 747

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
747
12:45 Jan-21-2019
Re: without duplex wire on the CR
In Reply to Anne at 11:12 Jan-21-2019 .

For CR you need to meet three separate requirements

IQI single wire for sensitivity
Duplex for spatial resolution.
Signal to Noise Ratio.

These are independent and essential for good CR
Take No shortcuts and don’t look for loopholes in codes

 
 Reply 
 
Dr. Uwe Zscherpel
Director,
BAM Berlin, Germany, Joined Jan 2010, 81

Dr. Uwe Zscherpel

Director,
BAM Berlin,
Germany,
Joined Jan 2010
81
08:20 Jan-22-2019
Re: without duplex wire on the CR
In Reply to Anne at 11:03 Jan-21-2019 .

Dear Anne.
The single wire IQI is used exclusively to evaluate the contrast in your image. Therefore the wires have to be of the same material like your object to be inspected. The contrast of single wires is of course influenced by the basic spatial resolution of your image, but sinle wires are NOT suitable for measurement of basic spatial resolution. For this measurement the Duplex wire IQI was invented in the 1970ths by the CERL in U.K. Here you have wire pairs of platinium, and from the seperation of the wire pairs you calculate the basic spatial resulution. The gap between the pair is the essential feature for basib spatial resolution, which is missing at the single wire IQI. Therfore, single wire IQIs are not siutable for basic spatial resoluion measurement.
Best regards
Uwe Z.

 
 Reply 
 
Petronext International
Petronext International
06:22 Jan-25-2019
Re: without duplex wire on the CR
In Reply to Anne at 04:36 Jan-17-2019 (Opening).

This is essential for spatial resolution that can vary between systems and IP plates,

 
 Reply 
 
N SUDHARSHAN REDDY
N SUDHARSHAN REDDY
06:12 Jul-24-2019
Re: without duplex wire on the CR
In Reply to Dr. Uwe Zscherpel at 08:20 Jan-22-2019 .

Dear sir,

Let me know how to use duplex wire iqi to find out the resolution of CR and DR system.

Thanks & regards
N. Madhu manohar reddy

 
 Reply 
 
N SUDHARSHAN REDDY
N SUDHARSHAN REDDY
06:21 Jul-24-2019
Re: without duplex wire on the CR
In Reply to Anne at 11:03 Jan-21-2019 .

Hi anne,

Like you I am also confused to provide calibration of x-ray system like sensitivity, magnification and resolution to one of our customer. Please let me know how to calibrate and process of this three things.

Thanks in advance for your valuable information.

 
 Reply 
 
Dr. Uwe Zscheropel
Director,
BAM Berlin, Germany, Joined Jan 2010, 81

Dr. Uwe Zscheropel

Director,
BAM Berlin,
Germany,
Joined Jan 2010
81
12:47 Jul-24-2019
Re: without duplex wire on the CR
In Reply to N SUDHARSHAN REDDY at 06:12 Jul-24-2019 .

Hallo,
description and usage of the duplex wire IQI is described clearly in ISO 19232-5. So please look at this standard.
Best regards
Uwe Z.

 
 Reply 
 
Gustaw
Gustaw
14:56 Oct-18-2019
Re: without duplex wire on the CR
In Reply to Dr. Uwe Zscheropel at 12:47 Jul-24-2019 .

Hello,
so what mean steatment "The use of a duplex wire IQI (ISO 19232-5) for production radiographs is not compulsory." This sentence is in the standards: ISO 16371-2:2017; EN 12681-2:2017 and ISO 17636-2:2013.
Kind regards,

Gustaw

 
 Reply 
 

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