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- since 1996 -

Sonatest Ltd
From our three distinct business centres in the UK, USA and CANADA, Sonatest design and produce a leading range of high performance ultrasonic NDT equipment and accessories.
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Career Discussions
Shane Feder
, Quality Co-ordinator (SubSea)
Thailand, Joined Dec 2014, 89

Shane Feder

, Quality Co-ordinator (SubSea)
Thailand,
Joined Dec 2014
89
12:22 Nov-01-2019
Is CSWIP a money-making scam ?

So, 10 years as a CBIP (New Zealand) qualified Welding Inspector.
Applied for the CSWIP 3.1 and based on prior experience did not have to attend the course.
Sat the examination and passed.
5 yr renewal - no problem.
10 yr renewal - big problem.
I now supposedly have to resit the initial examination to enable my 10 yr renewal ???
Every day of my Welding Inspection career has been a learning experience (no matter how small) so after 10 years (not including my previous 10 years) one would presume I was a much more experienced Inspector.
To have to resit the initial examination is a joke and nothing more than a money making scam.
Sorry for the rant - I feel better now,
Regards,
Shane

 
 Reply 
 
Edward Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1282

Edward Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1282
15:24 Nov-01-2019
Re: Is CSWIP a money-making scam ?
In Reply to Shane Feder at 12:22 Nov-01-2019 (Opening).

Shane, many years ago, as Canada decided to make rules to parallel EN as a precursor to joining the ISO 9712 programme, the re-examination concepts were introduced to great protests from technicians across the country. We too considered that it was just another money-grab. Indeed there were people who held certifications that were not regularly involved in NDT as they moved into administrative positions. But the re-examination seemed to be an over-reaction to any concerns for reduced field activities. At the time, the head of our certification programme was a PhD. I asked him how he might feel if suddenly the rules changed in academics and he had to defend his thesis every 10 years in order to hold a PhD (and would lose the prestige of being called Doctor if he failed!). He did not like my suggestion and told me that it was completely different...25 years later I still do not think it is completely different, and suggest it is exactly the same.
Look at the make-up of the committees making these rules for certification and you will find them heavily weighted by members of the training companies who have a vested interest in finding revenue-generating methods that favour their companies. The renewal fees and attestations for activities in industry seemed to be adequate to most technicians. The training/preparation for re-examination has become another source of income for the agencies involved in certification. Many of us found it odd that instead of getting credits for attending courses that were based on keeping abreast of modern changes to the various advances in NDT methods, the training for re-examinations was to be based on the old fundamentals.

All to say, I agree with your sentiments.

1
 
 Reply 
 
S R G Prabhu
Consultant, AUT specialist
FREELANCE, India, Joined Aug 2008, 64

S R G Prabhu

Consultant, AUT specialist
FREELANCE,
India,
Joined Aug 2008
64
06:58 Nov-05-2019
Re: Is CSWIP a money-making scam ?
In Reply to Edward Ginzel at 15:24 Nov-01-2019 .

I agree with Ed Ginzel completely.
ASNT and Nace and AWS donot need to re sit the exams. Only through continuous education and by points earned.

 
 Reply 
 
James Scalf
NDT Inspector,
Global Integrity, Canada, Joined Oct 2012, 274

James Scalf

NDT Inspector,
Global Integrity,
Canada,
Joined Oct 2012
274
13:59 Nov-25-2019
Re: Is CSWIP a money-making scam ?
In Reply to Edward Ginzel at 15:24 Nov-01-2019 .

Ed, I agree with you the Re-Certification examination, if you are continuously working in the industry, is nothing more than a large revenue generator for the learning centers, CGSB and NRCan. I sat in on the meetings where this movement was voted on and the numbers were rigged from the start. There were 2 members from the QCC (which is now running their own training program), Two members from the CWB (which does or was doing CGSB Examination), Two members from CGEP (could be wrong on the acronym... they are a Quebec based technical college), a representative from Durham College, Two from SAIT, Two from NAIT and a number from CINDE. To be fair the numbers from CINDE included members of some of the other technical committees as well. But it seemed to me at the time that no matter the voice of descension the result of the vote was a foregone conclusion.

As an industry though we have only ourselves to blame. I attend many of the NRCan meetings and very rarely see much involvement from the end users other than the training centers. Part of that is that the industry can get busy. The other, I think, is apathy on the end users part, they are more than willing to complain about "The Money Grab" but are not willing to work within the system to prevent or control it better.

I don't blame the learning center, CGSB or NRCan for taking advantage of our collective apathy. Business is business and they have the right to exploit weakness just the same as any other company in any other industry. We can wail about how unfair it is but in the end we did nothing to stop or prevent it. It is not like we didn't see it coming and the rumours had been floating around for a while that there was a movement towards this direction for a few years before the vote. Again though there was little involvement from the end users either in person or through the teleconference option so it was passed and now we have it and the likelihood is we'll not see it go anywhere. Be careful however as now that it is in... I could see the frequency of recertification requirements moving from every 10 years to every 5 with a 3 year renewal or something like that. I don't think it will be soon but I do think the next time that CGSB and/or NRCan need a cash infusion through this program that they will look to increase this frequency.

I do not like or think the recertification should be a requirement, if you can prove continuous employment and experience along with attendance to lectures, conferences and continued education through OEM Courses on emerging technologies but it is what it is now and unless we, as the end users, can attend and break the hold the training centers have on the CGSB and NRCan boards it is likely never to change because, as you point out, they all, NRCan and CGSB included, make a lot of money off the recertification and it now gives them a regular revenue stream. Under the old system, the one without recertification in the picture, they made the money off the initial certification only and then had no more revenue beyond that.

My thought on the matter...

Cheers...

 
 Reply 
 
Matthias Dreifeld
NDT Inspector, CEO
Dreifeld Materialprüftechnik, Germany, Joined Sep 2005, 100

Matthias Dreifeld

NDT Inspector, CEO
Dreifeld Materialprüftechnik,
Germany,
Joined Sep 2005
100
11:03 Nov-26-2019
Re: Is CSWIP a money-making scam ?
In Reply to Edward Ginzel at 15:24 Nov-01-2019 .

Not-so-fun-fact:
They are currently discussing the ISO 9712 and are thinking about a re-examination every 5 years, where right now it is every 10 years. (and of course, our clients don't want to pay for this when you calculate this position into hourly wages or price per test piece)

Ed, I also have the same argument with PhD or B.Sc. when it comes to this.
They often do more critical work than us and don't have to renew their papers ever.

 
 Reply 
 

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