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- since 1996 -
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Technical Discussions
Protonotarios Antony
USA, Joined Oct 2019, 2

Protonotarios Antony

USA,
Joined Oct 2019
2
19:38 Apr-09-2020
Automated Defect Detection

Hi Folks,

I'm beginning to see some new technology come out that's proposing to support technicians by automating some of the defect detection process in PAUT scanning.

To anyone's knowledge are there any codes in ASME Section 5 that would preclude the use of automated defect detection software? Is a Levell II/III still required to assign off on that indication?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Hope everyone is staying safe at this time.

Antony

 
 Reply 
 
Anmol Birring
Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc., USA, Joined Aug 2011, 805

Anmol Birring

Consultant,
Birring NDE Center, Inc.,
USA,
Joined Aug 2011
805
16:38 Apr-14-2020
Re: Automated Defect Detection
In Reply to Protonotarios Antony at 19:38 Apr-09-2020 (Opening).

Automatic detection works well on base metals, composites scanning using immersion/bubblers etc.

Not for welds

 
 Reply 
 
Andrew Castle
Argentina, Joined Feb 2020, 9

Andrew Castle

Argentina,
Joined Feb 2020
9
00:56 Apr-16-2020
Re: Automated Defect Detection
In Reply to Protonotarios Antony at 19:38 Apr-09-2020 (Opening).

When it comes to welds, the knowledge and intepretation of the inspector is still needed. Otherwise it would be necessary the use of an AI which can discriminate between defects according to the information given via the scaning and the code of construction with enough accuracy in the matter. at this time i havent heard of such software.

 
 Reply 
 
Daniel Braun
Daniel Braun
13:27 Apr-16-2020
Re: Automated Defect Detection
In Reply to Protonotarios Antony at 19:38 Apr-09-2020 (Opening).

Once 100% raw data is recorded and there are clear rules for the defects evaluation the AI allows creating of the preliminary editable defect list in a click at the postprocessing stage OR immediately upon scanning completed even before saving a file. The operator may apply the additional analysis and editing for each defect record then - such approach reduces the time consumption dramatically, refer for example to:
https://www.ndt.net/search/docs.php3?id=22510
https://youtu.be/DI33lzGcwLo - butt welds
https://youtu.be/Sg2nHNPz6D4 - long.seams
https://youtu.be/zsIdqso6B_c - shafts, bolts, and the like
Such function exists in Sonotron NDT PA instruments and in the freely distributed ISONIC PA Office software since about 10 years ago

 
 Reply 
 
Andrew Castle
Argentina, Joined Feb 2020, 9

Andrew Castle

Argentina,
Joined Feb 2020
9
21:38 Apr-16-2020
Re: Automated Defect Detection
In Reply to Protonotarios Antony at 19:38 Apr-09-2020 (Opening).

When it comes to welds, the knowledge and intepretation of the inspector is still needed. Otherwise it would be necessary the use of an AI which can discriminate between defects according to the information given via the scaning and the code of construction with enough accuracy in the matter. at this time i havent heard of such software.

 
 Reply 
 
Matthias Dreifeld
NDT Inspector, CEO
Dreifeld Materialprüftechnik, Germany, Joined Sep 2005, 104

Matthias Dreifeld

NDT Inspector, CEO
Dreifeld Materialprüftechnik,
Germany,
Joined Sep 2005
104
13:46 Apr-17-2020
Re: Automated Defect Detection
In Reply to Andrew Castle at 21:38 Apr-16-2020 .

You should check out VeriPhase.

Yes, the scans still have to be checked - you won't get around that - but the software sets all the gates for you, so you safe time because you dont have to push all the gates around.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Nick Bublitz
Other,
VeriPhase, USA, Joined May 2010, 134

Nick Bublitz

Other,
VeriPhase,
USA,
Joined May 2010
134
15:17 Apr-17-2020
Re: Automated Defect Detection
In Reply to Protonotarios Antony at 19:38 Apr-09-2020 (Opening).

Caveat* I work for a company that produces such software.

I do not believe there is anything in the ASME code preventing you from using a software that helps analyze your data. You can make your own interpretation as well. Automated Detection Technology does not make the final call on defect type, it only isolates the indications while giving you useful info about them to assist in analysis and as Matthias mentioned, it does auto-sizing by pre-positioning cursors and displays which you can adjust for your final call to your acceptance criteria / sizing methods. Even if you take the same time and diligence to review the file as you would without it if you are not confident of the software ability to find indications, it is designed to be a workflow enhancement software that moves cursors, changes displays, gives info for sorting defects, planning reports to estimate time and order to complete analysis (bulk files / large jobs) etc. This allows you to spend your time on importance analysis tasks like characterizing defects and applying acceptance criteria versus tedious tasks of moving cursors through data and changing the display between groups to see every channel the indication may be in. It also increases POD by providing a second trained review (digital) of the indications and helps identify and document quality issues like loss of couplant, data dropout, and automatic essential variable extraction. We have discussed acknowledging such software with members of the ASME board as well and it is likely to be addressed in a not so distant revision. ASME these days is able to be much more reactive to new technologies as we have seen with rapid adaptation to the FMC/TFM phenomenon.

1
 
 Reply 
 
Edward Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1300

Edward Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1300
17:00 Apr-17-2020
Re: Automated Defect Detection
In Reply to Andrew Castle at 21:38 Apr-16-2020 .

Many years ago (1990s) there was a useful functional software incorporated in the data analysis of pipeline AUT data that used zonal discrimination (it was incorporated in the RTD software). This could not discriminate defect from non-defect signals, but it ensured that the operator had to look at every valid indication and make a decision before moving on. Operators left on their own can easily miss indications so this added an extra level of invigilation.
More recently, software has been developed that also incorporates sizing and interaction rules for fracture-mechanics based acceptance criteria. Civa software has long incorporated analysis features that provide sizing by beam boundary mapping in BOTH lateral and temporal planes! It also provides for grouping (interaction) considerations. There are now several analysis modules on the front end of Civa that allow you to import, read and analyse files from several outside companies (e.g. Olympus and M2M data can be analysed in Civa using these tools).

In ASME V Art. 4 para. T-452 there is a statement made regarding acceptability of using computer-aided data analysis (note this paragraph is not simply a non-mandatory appendix). "Computer processes may be used to quantitatively evaluate the type, size, shape, location and orientation of flaws detected by ultrasonic examination or other NDE methods." So for this code anyway, computer analysis is acceptable for any NDE method.

1
 
 Reply 
 

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