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Roberto Otero
Engineering,
OMEGA SERVICIOS SPA, Chile, Joined Aug 2004, 17

Roberto Otero

Engineering,
OMEGA SERVICIOS SPA,
Chile,
Joined Aug 2004
17
19:30 Jul-28-2020
Wireless ultrasonic solution for mining industry.


Greetings. Good afternoon everyone.
I would appreciate any information on a commercial ultrasound-based solution to wirelessly monitor wear on internal metal parts in industrial equipment under harsh conditions applied to the mining industry. For example, crushers.
Regards.

Roberto Otero

 
 Reply 
 
Edward Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1307

Edward Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1307
20:50 Jul-28-2020
Re: Wireless ultrasonic solution for mining industry.
In Reply to Roberto Otero at 19:30 Jul-28-2020 (Opening).

Roberto, it is not a totally autonomous tool, but you might like to look at the system made by Inductosense
https://www.inductosense.com/our-solution/

For wireless options there are IOT suppliers like
https://www.monnit.com/solutions/facility-monitoring-systems
But I am not sure they design pulser-receiver capabilities into the sensors

2
 
 Reply 
 
Roberto Otero
Engineering,
OMEGA SERVICIOS SPA, Chile, Joined Aug 2004, 17

Roberto Otero

Engineering,
OMEGA SERVICIOS SPA,
Chile,
Joined Aug 2004
17
21:11 Jul-28-2020
Re: Wireless ultrasonic solution for mining industry.
In Reply to Edward Ginzel at 20:50 Jul-28-2020 .

Hi Ed!

Thanks Ed for your quick response!

My best regards!

Roberto

1
 
 Reply 
 
John Norman
Consultant, owner of business
NTS Ultrasonics Pty Ltd, Australia, Joined Oct 2012, 119

John Norman

Consultant, owner of business
NTS Ultrasonics Pty Ltd,
Australia,
Joined Oct 2012
119
02:26 Jul-29-2020
Re: Wireless ultrasonic solution for mining industry.
In Reply to Roberto Otero at 19:30 Jul-28-2020 (Opening).

Hi Roberto.

You can check out Sensor Networks. Inc., see https://sensornetworkscorp.com/solutions/ultrasonic-solutions/. They have wireless ultrasonic systems.

There is a real need for this type of equipment in the mining industry. A few years ago, when I had my business, I was approached to help develop wireless ultrasonics for monitoring wear in ball mills. I had the opportunity to look at the system design requirements, but unfortunately, the client could get funding to get the project up and running.

John Norman

1
 
 Reply 
 
J.B.
J.B.
19:19 Jul-29-2020
Re: Wireless ultrasonic solution for mining industry.
In Reply to John Norman at 02:26 Jul-29-2020 .

Your post attracted me to look a little deeper. Really an interesting field of technology. In aerospace we discussed “Remote NDT” already more than 25 Years ago.
While some years ago Boeing started the development of B787 and announced SHM to be a key technology, in aeronautics started a SHM hype and embedded sensors were investigated. Of course with wireless as option and energy harvesting if possible. So if you search for SHM and wireless ultrasound sensors you find a lot of papers and even some companies selling such sensors. Still the big transducer selling NDT companies have no offers in their catalogues. I remember no important papers from the big. Check for SHM conference papers here on NDT.net, in this field the wireless option is more popular than in other NDT business. You find a lot of working groups publishing their R&D in this field.
First I found a paper - https://www.ndt.net/article/shmndt2018/papers/SHM-NDT-2018_paper_7.pdf - from Doppler in China. In this case they propose a cloud based and wireless solution for structure monitoring. Still nothing to see in their catalogues but you have now names (authors) to make up contacts with them.
I remember that in UK at the Univ. of Strathclyde the working group around Prof. Gordon Hayward worked already 20 years ago on wireless transducers: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/252834242_Embedded_Ultrasonic_Transducer_Design_and_Wireless_Communications_for_Intelligent_Monitoring_of_Structures
This group was always working close with industry in UK, maybe there are companies selling equipment on that wireless basis.
Later the university of Bristol also covered this topic, it is this working group: http://www.bristol.ac.uk/engineering/people/group/research_group/2943
so see the following paper:
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspa.2014.0631 .
The result of this work is a spin-off: Inductosense:
https://www.inductosense.com/ , commercializing such systems.
Also from UK: IONIX https://ionixadvancedtechnologies.co.uk/products/

MISTRAS, another group of NDT companies also sells equipment in this field:
https://www.mistrasgroup.com/products/solutions/ut-ultrasonics/usb_lan_wireless_ut_systems/#wireless_ut_thickness_node
And this subsidiary of Mistras; Caliperay
https://www.caliperay.com
In Dresden/Germany the IKTS runs also R&D in this field:
https://www.ikts.fraunhofer.de/en/departments/electronics_microsystems_biomedicine/smartmaterialssystems/systems_condition_monitoring/cr_wireless_sensor_systems_for_safe_offshore_structures.html ,
IKTS may have companies in the back, which commercialize those developments. East Germany has some successful companies selling all kind of piezo equipment including successful NDT UT Transducers.
A company named resense https://www.resensys.com/senspot-ultrasonic-level.html
also sells wireless sensors, and in civil structure NDT wireless coupled ultrasound arrays are not uncommon: https://senix.com/wireless-level-monitoring/
Too in the civil structure business: PROCEQ (CH) https://www.proceq.com/company/about-us/

So there are solutions but until now nothing in the catalogues, which fully fits....
From the point of available electronic components it should be no big issue anymore. Wireless transmission modules of any size and any communication standard are easy to get off the shelf(IOT etc.), appropriate power supply /rechargeable batteries and wireless charging technologies are also available. But I guess the big transducer companies don't look far beyond their horizon. Sometimes those companies miss the developer experts who combine the Know How of Communication, Power Management, Battery, Charging Technology and NDT to do an innovative product development. In the age of industry 4.0 and IoT NDT is often performed very "traditional".

By the way: check this: https://clarius.com/ - Future also for NDT???? Wireless (medical) Smartphone PAUT.

so some ideas for you?

2
 
 Reply 
 
John Norman
Consultant, owner of business
NTS Ultrasonics Pty Ltd, Australia, Joined Oct 2012, 119

John Norman

Consultant, owner of business
NTS Ultrasonics Pty Ltd,
Australia,
Joined Oct 2012
119
03:55 Jul-30-2020
Re: Wireless ultrasonic solution for mining industry.
In Reply to J.B. at 19:19 Jul-29-2020 .

Hi J.B.

Thanks for the comprehensive contribution. When I was looking into wireless UT for ball mills a few years ago, there were a couple of wireless IOT type systems just coming onto the market that looked suitable. We were looking to build something from scratch as a new product, not buy from an existing supplier (I don't think there were any back then).
As I see it there are two issues for UT, as opposed to SHM:
1. How clever is the transducer/UT module, keeping in mind the need to supply power, and
2. How much data can the wireless network handle.
If you are monitoring wear, do you want to transmit the whole A scan by wireless, or do you have some smarts in the UT front end and just transmit the measured thickness? In the project I was involved with the client had a preferred wireless technology they wanted to use that was developed locally. This was a variation on RFID wireless technology and could only transmit very short packets of data at any one time. So, I had to come up with a design concept for a very low powered UT front end that could process the A scan and get the thickness reading, so that just the thickness reading would be transmitted to the central wireless hub. Energy harvesting was not an option in this project and we were to rely on battery power. However, the client could not find the funding to progress and the project never got past the initial concept phase.
John Norman

1
 
 Reply 
 
Tim Stevenson
Director,
Ionix Advanced Technologies, United Kingdom, Joined Mar 2016, 2

Tim Stevenson

Director,
Ionix Advanced Technologies,
United Kingdom,
Joined Mar 2016
2
11:04 Aug-02-2020
Re: Wireless ultrasonic solution for mining industry.
In Reply to Roberto Otero at 19:30 Jul-28-2020 (Opening).

Hi Roberto,
At Ionix we specialise in ultrasonic monitoring tools, including wall loss, specifically for extreme environments including explosive atmospheres, high-temp, radiation, vibration etc to enable in-service monitoring of assets in refining, aerospace, nuclear and mining.
We offer a range of wired and wireless solutions (including integrated solutions with both the inductosense RFID, and Mistras WirelessHART Caliperay mentioned in the thread, as well as cellular and other communication protocols) to get the data.
See www.ionix.at

Please feel free to contact us to help with your particular needs.
Tim

 
 Reply 
 

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