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- since 1996 -
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Technical Discussions
R P Bhan
Engineering,
HPCL Refinery, India, Joined Jul 2003, 11

R P Bhan

Engineering,
HPCL Refinery,
India,
Joined Jul 2003
11
08:53 Sep-15-2005
Inspection of internally cement lined steel pipes

We are using cement lined steel pipes for handling sea water in our Refinery . Presently there are no standard NDE methods available or known to us for checking the condition of cement lining inside the steel pipes in service or predicting the repairs or replacement for these pipes . Earlier somebody had advised that it may be possible to do inspection of same by Thermography . I will like to have member's response on out of the techniques available which could be best used for such inspections .
BHAN
HPCL Mumbai Refinery
India


 
 Reply 
 
Arunachalam
Arunachalam
00:55 Sep-16-2005
Re: Inspection of internally cement lined steel pipes
Dear Mr.Bhan,
Yes the condition of cement lining can be tested by thermography if the fluid temp and the out side temp is significantly more , if there is a crack or removal of concrete in a particular location the temp variation will indicated in a different colour,

Also we can use LRUT method to detect metal loss where the pipe is corroded and material loss is significant.

Our comapny "IRS-Singapore" is doing both Inspection service, if you are interested I will send more details. mail to arun@irs-inspection.com
With regards
Arun

---------- Start Original Message -----------
: We are using cement lined steel pipes for handling sea water in our Refinery . Presently there are no standard NDE methods available or known to us for checking the condition of cement lining inside the steel pipes in service or predicting the repairs or replacement for these pipes . Earlier somebody had advised that it may be possible to do inspection of same by Thermography . I will like to have member's response on out of the techniques available which could be best used for such inspections .
: BHAN
: HPCL Mumbai Refinery
: India
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
 Reply 
 
rob
rob
09:00 Sep-20-2005
Re: Inspection of internally cement lined steel pipes
Several questions, materials and process background, site specific drawings, access points, code and operations requirements are needed to help select the methods.

First, let me say that cement lined pipe is very reliable and depending on how it is operated may change the selected NDE technique.

Next, you research to support a possible degration falt tree

Then, you must identify where and when you think the failure will take place. Look at your access, determine if the degradation is from the inside then where.

For example, cement pipe that has been operated in the acid condition will fail sooner than alkali condition, tight bend radius for flow assisted degradation. Also extreem temperature differential will cause the cement to separate from the carbon steel pipe. I could go on and on.

If during first several plant operating cycles or year problem areas could be radiographed, these radiographs can be used as control samples. Later they can be used to assess damage. Second inspection could be planned at every 5 year intervals.
I could go on and on.
Rob

and


 
 Reply 
 
rpbhan
Engineering,
HPCL Refinery, India, Joined Jul 2003, 11

rpbhan

Engineering,
HPCL Refinery,
India,
Joined Jul 2003
11
05:28 Oct-10-2005
Re: Inspection of internally cement lined steel pipes
Our main area of concern is near the welds & fittings where cement lining is not done by spinning but is done by manual application . another area of concern becomes curing as people avoid 7 days water curing by taking short cuts of 24 hrs. wet steam curing . It is very difficult to keep track at site whether all the joints or spots where cement was repaired were properly cured . we do have our main cooling water line which is cement lined pipe in service for about 50 years but we want to get an idea about the remaining life of this line to avoid any surprises .

It is sure that failures are mostly near the welds or mitres/bends or fabricated tees .
Thanks
Bhan

-------- Start Original Message -----------
: Several questions, materials and process background, site specific drawings, access points, code and operations requirements are needed to help select the methods.
: First, let me say that cement lined pipe is very reliable and depending on how it is operated may change theselected NDE technique.
: Next, you research to support a possible degration falt tree
: Then, you must identify where and when you think the failure will take place. Look at your access, determine if the degradation is from the inside then where.
: For example, cement pipe that has been operated in the acid condition will fail sooner than alkali condition, tight bend radius for flow assisted degradation. Also extreem temperature differential will cause the cement to separate from the carbon steel pipe. I could go on and on.
: If during first several plant operating cycles or year problem areas could be radiographed, these radiographs can be used as control samples. Later they can be used to assess damage. Second inspection could be planned at every 5 year intervals.
: I could go on and on.
: Rob
: and
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
 Reply 
 
Arunachalam
Arunachalam
06:59 Oct-11-2005
Re: Inspection of internally cement lined steel pipes
Dear Bhan,
The LRUT technique will identify the condition of cement lined pipes if there is a corrosion and subiquent metal loss under damaged cement lining, which will help you to determine the remaining life of the pipe.We can offer LRUT service to you.
Arun
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Our main area of concern is near the welds & fittings where cement lining is not done by spinning but is done by manual application . another area of concern becomes curing as people avoid 7 days water curing by taking short cuts of 24 hrs. wet steam curing . It is very difficult to keep track at site whether all the joints or spots where cement was repaired were properly cured . we do have our main cooling water line which is cement lined pipe in service for about 50 years but we want to get an idea about the remaining life of this line to avoid any surprises .
: It is sure that failures are mostly near the welds or mitres/bends or fabricated tees .
: Thanks
: Bhan
: -------- Start Original Message -----------
: : Several questions, materials and process background, site specific drawings, access points, code and operations requirements are needed to help select the methods.
: : First, let me say that cement lined pipe is very reliable and depending on how it is operated may change the selected NDE technique.
: : Next, you research to support a possible degration falt tree
: : Then, you must identify where and when you think the failure will take place. Look at your access, determine if the degradation is from the inside then where.
: : For example, cement pipe that has been operated in the acid condition will fail sooner than alkali condition, tight bend radius for flow assisted degradation. Also extreem temperature differential will cause the cement to separate from the carbon steel pipe. I could go on and on.
: : If during first several plant operating cycles or year problem areas could be radiographed, these radiographs can be used as control samples. Later they can be used to assess damage. Second inspection could be planned at every 5 year intervals.
: : I could go on and on.
: : Rob
: : and
------------ End Original Message ------------





 
 Reply 
 
Paul
,
Netherlands, Joined Jun 2003, 12

Paul

,
Netherlands,
Joined Jun 2003
12
00:18 Oct-17-2005
Re: Inspection of internally cement lined steel pipes
Dear Bhan,
I would not agree in particular with the statements of Mr Arun. Cement lining is extremely attenuative and can have significant effect on signal to noise ratios when applying LRUT. In turn this can have detrimental effect on sensitivity, and certainly diagnostic lengths of test. I feel cement-lined pipework pushes LRUT to the limit and perhaps beyond.
Regards
Paul.


 
 Reply 
 
Arunachalam
Arunachalam
06:57 Oct-20-2005
Re: Inspection of internally cement lined steel pipes
Dear Bhan/Paul,
I agree that LRUT will get attunate in cement lined pipe if the bond is good, Please look at the purpose, we like to know the integarity of bonding of the cement lining and damage, if bonding is good the resulted length is low and we will confirm the pipe lining is good bonded, if there is an air gab( most cases the cement lining will do) the test length will be longer,and if the damge or disbonding further developed corrosion will be detected by LRUT in % of thickness loss in that particular location.

All methods are same, principles are same to every body but how we use and what for we use will determine/serve the purpose.
Hope you understand,
Thanks
Arun
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Dear Bhan,
: I would not agree in particular with the statements of Mr Arun. Cement lining is extremely attenuative and can have significant effect on signal to noise ratios when applying LRUT. In turn this can have detrimental effect on sensitivity, and certainly diagnostic lengths of test. I feel cement-lined pipework pushes LRUT to the limit and perhaps beyond.
: Regards
: Paul.
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
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