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Technical Discussions
SKM
SKM
04:34 Feb-10-2007
Would like to know your opinion

If gamma radiography is requested to perform on Storage tanks, it needs a good platform and structure. Our client requested using two snooker lifts to perform this task one to place the PROJECTOR and another to place a CRANK/DRIVE ASSEMBLY assembly. QUITE SCARY RIGHT! But client says "WHY CANNOT PERFORM? GIVE REASONS? YOU CAN DO ALL SAFETY EVALUATIONS REQUIRED AND PERFORM THE TASK IN THIS MANNER. I REQUEST THE READERS TO HELP ME WITH THEIR OPINION:

A) DOES ANYWHERE ANYBODY DO THIS KIND OF ARRANGEMENT?
B) IF DONE WHAT ARE ALL PRECAUTIONS TAKEN AND EVALUATION NECESSARY
C) PLS GIVE ME SOME HINTS TO CONVINCE THIS IS NOT THE WAY.

I thank all readers and those replying to this message in ADVANCE. your opinion would matter in decission making
Thanks
Mohiuddin


    
 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
08:44 Feb-10-2007
Re: Would like to know your opinion
Mohiuddin

How is the poor guy responsible for fixing the isotope guide tube "projector" to the wall of the storage tank going to be protected from radiation once the istope is wound out? Or is he expected to climb down the fram of the lift? What about the technician placing the film on the opposite wall of the tank?

My opinion is that your clients are cheapskates with no idea of quality inspection or HSE and their concomittant requirements. Tell them, or your bosses, you are not interested in their work until they make arrangements for your safety.

Regards

Nigel


----------- Start Original Message -----------
: If gamma radiography is requested to perform on Storage tanks, it needs a good platform and structure. Our client requested using two snooker lifts to perform this task one to place the PROJECTOR and another to place a CRANK/DRIVE ASSEMBLY assembly. QUITE SCARY RIGHT! But client says "WHY CANNOT PERFORM? GIVE REASONS? YOU CAN DO ALL SAFETY EVALUATIONS REQUIRED AND PERFORM THE TASK IN THIS MANNER. I REQUEST THE READERS TO HELP ME WITH THEIR OPINION:
: A) DOES ANYWHERE ANYBODY DO THIS KIND OF ARRANGEMENT?
: B) IF DONE WHAT ARE ALL PRECAUTIONS TAKEN AND EVALUATION NECESSARY
: C) PLS GIVE ME SOME HINTS TO CONVINCE THIS IS NOT THE WAY.
: I thank all readers and those replying to this message in ADVANCE. your opinion would matter in decission making
: Thanks
: Mohiuddin
------------ End Original Message ------------




    
 
 Reply 
 
SKM
SKM
02:45 Feb-11-2007
Re: Would like to know your opinion (URGENT Reply by 13th Feb)
Hi friends I had one opinion till now from Nigel Armstrong. Thanks (Nigel). The arrangement is as follows:

1) Inside to paste film using scissors lift.
2) Outside move the boom lift close to wall and guide tube tied to one of the bars on Scissors lift.
3) After setting up the source he flew into another boom lift with a crank unit.
4) Move as much you crank cable allows you and expose and retract the source.

I am fed up speaking to this guys. I am with my technicians and trying to convince them to put up staging. Can anybody pls let me know if they have experience how the usual and normal setup is in the radiography of storage tanks.

Pls reply by 12 or max by 13th feb as I have to hold my final discussions with them.
regards
Khaja

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: If gamma radiography is requested to perform on Storage tanks, it needs a good platform and structure. Our client requested using two snooker lifts to perform this task one to place the PROJECTOR and another to place a CRANK/DRIVE ASSEMBLY assembly. QUITE SCARY RIGHT! But client says "WHY CANNOT PERFORM? GIVE REASONS? YOU CAN DO ALL SAFETY EVALUATIONS REQUIRED AND PERFORM THE TASK IN THIS MANNER. I REQUEST THE READERS TO HELP ME WITH THEIR OPINION:
: A) DOES ANYWHERE ANYBODY DO THIS KIND OF ARRANGEMENT?
: B) IF DONE WHAT ARE ALL PRECAUTIONS TAKEN AND EVALUATION NECESSARY
: C) PLS GIVE ME SOME HINTS TO CONVINCE THIS IS NOT THE WAY.
: I thank all readers and those replying to this message in ADVANCE. your opinion would matter in decission making
: Thanks
: Mohiuddin
------------ End Original Message ------------




    
 
 Reply 
 
Jimbo
Jimbo
03:41 Feb-11-2007
Re: Would like to know your opinion
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Mohiuddin
: How is the poor guy responsible for fixing the isotope guide tube "projector" to the wall of the storage tank going to be protected from radiation once the istope is wound out? Or is he expected to climb down the fram of the lift? What about the technician placing the film on the opposite wall of the tank?
: My opinion is that your clients are cheapskates with no idea of quality inspection or HSE and their concomittant requirements. Tell them, or your bosses, you are not interested in their work until they make arrangements for your safety.
: Regards
: Nigel
:
: : If gamma radiography is requested to perform on Storage tanks, it needs a good platform and structure. Our client requested using two snooker lifts to perform this task one to place the PROJECTOR and another to place a CRANK/DRIVE ASSEMBLY assembly. QUITE SCARY RIGHT! But client says "WHY CANNOT PERFORM? GIVE REASONS? YOU CAN DO ALL SAFETY EVALUATIONS REQUIRED AND PERFORM THE TASK IN THIS MANNER. I REQUEST THE READERS TO HELP ME WITH THEIR OPINION:
: : A) DOES ANYWHERE ANYBODY DO THIS KIND OF ARRANGEMENT?
: : B) IF DONE WHAT ARE ALL PRECAUTIONS TAKEN AND EVALUATION NECESSARY
: : C) PLS GIVE ME SOME HINTS TO CONVINCE THIS IS NOT THE WAY.
: : I thank all readers and those replying to this message in ADVANCE. your opinion would matter in decission making
: : Thanks
: : Mohiuddin
------------ End Original Message ------------

WHat does your safety department have to say about that? I personally wouldn't do it because if you get hurt they will blsme you. You're right they are cheapskates. What about radios to communicate?



    
 
 Reply 
 
P V SASTRY
R & D, NDT tecniques metallurgy
TAKEN VRS FROM THE POSITION OF SR. DEPUTY GENERAL MANAGER BHEL CORPORATE R&D, India, Joined Jan 2003, 195

P V SASTRY

R & D, NDT tecniques metallurgy
TAKEN VRS FROM THE POSITION OF SR. DEPUTY GENERAL MANAGER BHEL CORPORATE R&D,
India,
Joined Jan 2003
195
09:07 Feb-11-2007
Re: Would like to know your opinion (URGENT Reply by 13th Feb)
Dear Friend,

The first and sencond steps are ok but may be with some acceptable risk.

The third and fourth steps involve safety aspects.

Even assuming that you have long enough retractable cable where you can move to a safe distance for cranking (which itself is doubtful) and operators are rotated to keep down to acceptable exposure levels, the question of physical safety involved in constant handling of the boom in a cordinated sequence at the given heights with a technician hanging at the end, needs very carefull attention. I personally do not accept the risk.

There is one way you can make it work without taking the risk. You should employ a mototorized camera with a long enough connecting cable linked to a control panel located at the ground/base level.

Long back I have operated a French camera with an electrical controle panel with more than 20 metres connecting cable but that was a Co-60 source.

The placement of the source guide tube should be controlled from the ground only with sutably designed locators aided with enhanced vision through binaculars and/or with the help of ccd camera.

The loctors should fix the boom to the tank wall to prevent movement(expected at those heights) during exposure.

Still the risk is present in placement of the film. This may perhaps be minimised by placement of a long pack with staggered films that are exposed individually but collectively retrieved.(complimentary pack is placed in the repeat step)

The film placement also can be done in some ways without actually the technician going up by using electro meagnetic devices.

All of this costs money.In the end it may work out to be cheaper to erect the scafolds

Good luck for whatever you do.

P V SASTRY
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Hi friends I had one opinion till now from Nigel Armstrong. Thanks (Nigel). The arrangement is as follows:
: 1) Inside to paste film using scissors lift.
: 2) Outside move the boom lift close to wall and guide tube tiedto one of the bars on Scissors lift.
: 3) After setting up the source he flew into another boom lift with a crank unit.
: 4) Move as much you crank cable allows you and expose and retract the source.
: I am fed up speaking to this guys. I am with my technicians and trying to convince them to put up staging. Can anybody pls let me know if they have experience how the usual and normal setup is in the radiography of storage tanks.
: Pls reply by 12 or max by 13th feb as I have to hold my final discussions with them.
: regards
: Khaja
: : If gamma radiography is requested to perform on Storage tanks, it needs a good platform and structure. Our client requested using two snooker lifts to perform this task one to place the PROJECTOR and another to place a CRANK/DRIVE ASSEMBLY assembly. QUITE SCARY RIGHT! But client says "WHY CANNOT PERFORM? GIVE REASONS? YOU CAN DO ALL SAFETY EVALUATIONS REQUIRED AND PERFORM THE TASK IN THIS MANNER. I REQUEST THE READERS TO HELP ME WITH THEIR OPINION:
: : A) DOES ANYWHERE ANYBODY DO THIS KIND OF ARRANGEMENT?
: : B) IF DONE WHAT ARE ALL PRECAUTIONS TAKEN AND EVALUATION NECESSARY
: : C) PLS GIVE ME SOME HINTS TO CONVINCE THIS IS NOT THE WAY.
: : I thank all readers and those replying to this message in ADVANCE. your opinion would matter in decission making
: : Thanks
: : Mohiuddin
------------ End Original Message ------------




    
 
 Reply 
 
Collin Maloney
NDT Inspector, - Plant Inspector
Applus RTD, Australia, Joined Nov 2000, 147

Collin Maloney

NDT Inspector, - Plant Inspector
Applus RTD,
Australia,
Joined Nov 2000
147
04:34 Feb-12-2007
Re: Would like to know your opinion
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: If gamma radiography is requested to perform on Storage tanks, it needs a good platform and structure. Our client requested using two snooker lifts to perform this task one to place the PROJECTOR and another to place a CRANK/DRIVE ASSEMBLY assembly. QUITE SCARY RIGHT! But client says "WHY CANNOT PERFORM? GIVE REASONS? YOU CAN DO ALL SAFETY EVALUATIONS REQUIRED AND PERFORM THE TASK IN THIS MANNER. I REQUEST THE READERS TO HELP ME WITH THEIR OPINION:
: A) DOES ANYWHERE ANYBODY DO THIS KIND OF ARRANGEMENT?
: B) IF DONE WHAT ARE ALL PRECAUTIONS TAKEN AND EVALUATION NECESSARY
: C) PLS GIVE ME SOME HINTS TO CONVINCE THIS IS NOT THE WAY.
: I thank all readers and those replying to this message in ADVANCE. your opinion would matter in decission making
: Thanks
: Mohiuddin
------------ End Original Message ------------

Mohiuddin

This can be done with a bit of forward planning.
I am assuming that you are doing "spot" radiography to allowthe following:
1. All film needs to be placed on inside tank wall taking care not to scatter or double expose adjacent shots.
2. Magnet stand placed on to tank wall with preset "SFD" using EWP, connect delivery tube and collimator to stand.
3. Connect delivery tube to isotope container (positioned on floor of EWP) and windout cable.
4. lower windout to hang down side of EWP.
5. If required, lead sheet screens can be layed on floor of EWP and around delivery tube to reduce risk.
6. Second EWP is used to access windout.

Items to consider are access from one EWP to the other when mooving equipment and of course that old carrot, what are you going to do when the roof goes on?
Still worried about risk!, and need to use gamma!!!! then get hold of a SCAR camera.



    
 
 Reply 
 
Dent
Consultant, NDE Manager NDELevel III/3
NDT Consultant, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 248

Dent

Consultant, NDE Manager NDELevel III/3
NDT Consultant,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
248
09:34 Feb-12-2007
Re: Would like to know your opinion
However, you do it, you must consider how you could safely retrieve a stuck source. I suggest this is going to be difficult from a 'snooker lift'.


----------- Start Original Message -----------
: If gamma radiography is requested to perform on Storage tanks, it needs a good platform and structure. Our client requested using two snooker lifts to perform this task one to place the PROJECTOR and another to place a CRANK/DRIVE ASSEMBLY assembly. QUITE SCARY RIGHT! But client says "WHY CANNOT PERFORM? GIVE REASONS? YOU CAN DO ALL SAFETY EVALUATIONS REQUIRED AND PERFORM THE TASK IN THIS MANNER. I REQUEST THE READERS TO HELP ME WITH THEIR OPINION:
: A) DOES ANYWHERE ANYBODY DO THIS KIND OF ARRANGEMENT?
: B) IF DONE WHAT ARE ALL PRECAUTIONS TAKEN AND EVALUATION NECESSARY
: C) PLS GIVE ME SOME HINTS TO CONVINCE THIS IS NOT THE WAY.
: I thank all readers and those replying to this message in ADVANCE. your opinion would matter in decission making
: Thanks
: Mohiuddin
------------ End Original Message ------------




    
 
 Reply 
 

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