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Technical Discussions
Gary Georgeson, PhD
Gary Georgeson, PhD
07:23 Jan-26-2001
Industry Problems requiring Neutron Radiography


I would like to talk with anyone working in NDI in aerospace,
transportation, or civil engineering who has come across an
important application/problem that is not being solved by current
NDI approaches. Specifically, I am looking for a strong business
case for developing high flux, high speed neutron radiography.
I would expect neutron radiography to be an advantage in inspecting:

thick metallic structure (bridges, submarines, and buildings, etc.)
Structures with water ingress problems
degraded wiring insulation
thick composite w/ adhesive or paste bonds
solid rocket motors
hazardous waste canisters
etc.

I'm sure there are many other potential applications.
Basically, I have a potential solution looking for the right problem!

If

(1)current NDI techniques don't work for your application,
and
(2)high flux neutron radiography has potential to solve it,
and
(3)the application scale is large enough to justify development
money

then...I'd like to hear from you!

thankyou.




 
 Reply 
 
Uli Mletzko
R & D, Retired
Germany, Joined Nov 1998, 89

Uli Mletzko

R & D, Retired
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
89
08:06 Jan-26-2001
Re: Industry Problems requiring Neutron Radiography



 
 Reply 
 
Rolf Diederichs
Director,
NDT.net, Germany, Joined Nov 1998, 608

Rolf Diederichs

Director,
NDT.net,
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
608
01:23 Jan-27-2001
Re: Industry Problems requiring Neutron Radiography
Dear Gary,

You may try the following resources from NDT.net and the Web

NDT.net Article - Descriptor Search
http://www.ndt.net/search/searchar.htm
Select from Method related List "neutron radiography" and get 11 matches.

Examples:
15th WCNDT Rome: Workshop - Neutron workshop
http://www.ndt.net/article/wcndt00/toc/neutw.htm

Neutron radiography of Aircraft composite Flight control Surfaces (W.J. Lewis ..)
http://www.ndt.net/article/wcndt00/papers/idn049/idn049.htm

The use of Neutron Radiography in the Inspection of Aircraft Composite Flight Control Surfaces (W.J. Lewis ..)
http://www.ndt.net/article/pacndt98/9/9.htm

Facilities for Neutron Radiography in Europe: Performance, Applications and future Use (E.H. Lehmann )
http://www.ndt.net/article/wcndt00/papers/idn801/idn801.htm

The Web:
Neutron Radiography at the Paul Scherrer Institute
http://www1.psi.ch/www_sinq_hn/SINQ/neutra/NEUTRA1.HTML

The Sixth World Conference On Neutron Radiography - Osaka, Japan, May 1999
http://www.rri.kyoto-u.ac.jp/WCNR6/index.html


:
: I would like to talk with anyone working in NDI in aerospace,
: transportation, or civil engineering who has come across an
: important application/problem that is not being solved by current
: NDI approaches. Specifically, I am looking for a strong business
: case for developing high flux, high speed neutron radiography.
: I would expect neutron radiography to be an advantage in inspecting:

: thick metallic structure (bridges, submarines, and buildings, etc.)
: Structures with water ingress problems
: degraded wiring insulation
: thick composite w/ adhesive or paste bonds
: solid rocket motors
: hazardous waste canisters
: etc.

: I'm sure there are many other potential applications.
: Basically, I have a potential solution looking for the right problem!

: If
:
: (1)current NDI techniques don't work for your application,
: and
: (2)high flux neutron radiography has potential to solve it,
: and
: (3)the application scale is large enough to justify development
: money

: then...I'd like to hear from you!

: thankyou.




 
 Reply 
 
Bill Lewis
Bill Lewis
09:17 Jan-30-2001
Re: Industry Problems requiring Neutron Radiography
Gary, Dr. Les Bennett and I have been working on aerospace applications
with neutron radiography for the past 10 years or so, primarily with
detection of corrosion inside of composite flight control surfaces of
F-18 aircraft. While there are many additional aerospace applications
of neutron radiography, including commercial work by both Aerotest in
the US and NRay Services in Canada, the aerospace industry has not
totally embraced the technique. Of interest to you may be the upcoming
Fourth International Topical Meeting on Neutron Radiography in June 2000
in State College, Pennsylvania where many of the world's neutron
radiographers will be gathering. As of this date, there are 57 papers
and posters that will be presented, including many on applications.
Please also note that my E-mail address has changed to
wslewis8100@home.com if you need additional information. Thanks.

Bill Lewis


:
: I would like to talk with anyone working in NDI in aerospace,
: transportation, or civil engineering who has come across an
: important application/problem that is not being solved by current
: NDI approaches. Specifically, I am looking for a strong business
: case for developing high flux, high speed neutron radiography.
: I would expect neutron radiography to be an advantage in inspecting:

: thick metallic structure (bridges, submarines, and buildings, etc.)
: Structures with water ingress problems
: degraded wiring insulation
: thick composite w/ adhesive or paste bonds
: solid rocket motors
: hazardous waste canisters
: etc.

: I'm sure there are many other potential applications.
: Basically, I have a potential solution looking for the right problem!

: If
:
: (1)current NDI techniques don't work for your application,
: and
: (2)high flux neutron radiography has potential to solve it,
: and
: (3)the application scale is large enough to justify development
: money

: then...I'd like to hear from you!

: thankyou.




 
 Reply 
 
Charlie
Engineering, Ex DNV Surveyor (China)
Petronas Rapid Project, Malaysia, Joined Aug 2017, 4

Charlie

Engineering, Ex DNV Surveyor (China)
Petronas Rapid Project,
Malaysia,
Joined Aug 2017
4
16:28 Feb-25-2019
Re: Industry Problems requiring Neutron Radiography
In Reply to Bill Lewis at 09:17 Jan-30-2001 .

Dear Sir

On neutron radiography, the physics is simple and the technology is still at its infancy. May be due to lack of commercial application.

I have uploaded the materials which I have used for my qualification exams to the Microsoft Onedrive.

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AgjXpjEHTe0ej1ZlZxoQmNEbj3eG

Hope you find it useful.

 
 Reply 
 
J.B.
J.B.
20:08 Feb-25-2019
Re: Industry Problems requiring Neutron Radiography
In Reply to Charlie at 16:28 Feb-25-2019 .

There had been some investigations in the 1980ties with an electrical neuton source in the european aerospace industry. There was a system provided by IABG called DIANE∗ neutron radiology system prepared for operation in the IABG laboratories in Ottobrunn (Germany). It utilized a D-T generator, designated GENIE 46, developed by SODERN (France) for this application.
It was a interesting mobile system to check for corrosion, water ingress etc. even at that time it was applied not only to metal as well as already on CFRP and CFRP/Nomex Honeycomb and Metall sandwich structures. Nevertheless neutrons are hazardous and the safety precautions turned out to be unacceptable. In the US there had been installations in maintenance hangars foundation radiating into the sky - I guess it was McClellan Air Force Base (https://inis.iaea.org/search/search.aspx?orig_q=RN:31049173).
But for civil application it is impossible to install such a system or even to work with neutrons. In the past even conventional radiography was wherever possible replaced by other methods like UT. Only with the new digital detector arrays and the new low radiation sources (e.g. XRIS µGemX-150 / http://www.xris.eu/portable_ndt) there could come a change. But if you talk with airline maintenance people, they quickly tell you " we don't like radiography as it disturbes. You have to evacuate a hangar from all other people to perform radiographic inspection because of safety reasons. As today even at night the maintenance hangars are crowded with workers, you have never the aircraft for your own as an NDT guy.

Gary - funny: you have the same name as one of the most important Boeing NDT experts: https://www.boeing.com/features/2014/05/corp-georgeson-05-16-14.page

 
 Reply 
 
J.B.
J.B.
20:43 Feb-25-2019
Re: Industry Problems requiring Neutron Radiography
In Reply to J.B. at 20:08 Feb-25-2019 .

One more:
by the way, are you working with neuristor fron Sandia?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOsoueOIURo&feature=youtu.be
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/276978432_NEUTRISTOR_2012-RD_100_Award_report

 
 Reply 
 

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