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Technical Discussions
Dao Huu Xuan
Other,
Vietnam, Joined Feb 2007, 18

Dao Huu Xuan

Other,
Vietnam,
Joined Feb 2007
18
08:22 Oct-02-2008
Advanced UT for piping?

Hi all,
I have a witness an advanced UT inspection for piping 3" to 6" which is executed by a NDT service. Methodes used are ABI scan and TOFD. I was reject all scan result of joints scaned only one side.
My questions are.
1. Are ABI scan and TOFD can inspect for joints pipe to fitting (L bowls and flanges) in diameter range of 3-6"? How to full coverage scan.
2. Which is the best equipment to inspect the above mentioned material?
Thank you,
Dao Huu Xuan, Vietnam


 
 Reply 
 
Prasad
Director, NDT Consultant
Energy Workforce Group of Companies, Malaysia, Joined Aug 2003, 12

Prasad

Director, NDT Consultant
Energy Workforce Group of Companies,
Malaysia,
Joined Aug 2003
12
00:43 Oct-02-2008
Re: Advanced UT for piping?
Dear Dao Huu Xuan,

First of all the above said UT inspection methods should have been qualified at site.

Secondly ABI scan is a pulse echo method with A and B-Scan-Enhancement Imaging will be obtained through the capturing and recording of the successive unprocessed A-Scans along the scanning path or in time progress. So just like in pulse echo if you can ensure the coverage from one side using diffrent angle beam probes etc , complying to the prevailing code; it is sufficient to carry out inspection from one side

You need to have access for emitter and receiver probes to carry out TOFD. So it is impossible to carry out TOFD from one side.

More details are required for the detailed reply

Prasad

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Hi all,
: I have a witness an advanced UT inspection for piping 3" to 6" which is executed by a NDT service. Methodes used are ABI scan and TOFD. I was reject all scan result of joints scaned only one side.
: My questions are.
:1. Are ABI scan and TOFD can inspect for joints pipe to fitting (L bowls and flanges) in diameter range of 3-6"? How to full coverage scan.
: 2. Which is the best equipment to inspect the above mentioned material?
: Thank you,
: Dao Huu Xuan, Vietnam
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
 Reply 
 
Michael Moles †2014 *1948
, Joined ,
05:29 Oct-02-2008
Re: Advanced UT for piping?
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Hi all,
: I have a witness an advanced UT inspection for piping 3" to 6" which is executed by a NDT service. Methodes used are ABI scan and TOFD. I was reject all scan result of joints scaned only one side.
: My questions are.
: 1. Are ABI scan and TOFD can inspect for joints pipe to fitting (L bowls and flanges) in diameter range of 3-6"? How to full coverage scan.
: 2. Which is the best equipment to inspect the above mentioned material?
: Thank you,
: Dao Huu Xuan, Vietnam
------------ End Original Message ------------

Hi:

You don't give us enough information here to seriously critique the technique. We don't have component drawings, dimensions, weld profile, expected flaws etc, and we don't have the inspection technique. What is an ABI scan? Is it an A, B, S scan? If you have more information, please send it to my e-mail address.

Michael Moles



 
 Reply 
 
Rafal Mis
Sales, - Technical Support
Olympus Poland, Poland, Joined Sep 2008, 12

Rafal Mis

Sales, - Technical Support
Olympus Poland,
Poland,
Joined Sep 2008
12
04:55 Oct-03-2008
Re: Advanced UT for piping?
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Hi all,
: I have a witness an advanced UT inspection for piping 3" to 6" which is executed by a NDT service. Methodes used are ABI scan and TOFD. I was reject all scan result of joints scaned only one side.
: My questions are.
: 1. Are ABI scan and TOFD can inspect for joints pipe to fitting (L bowls and flanges) in diameter range of 3-6"? How to full coverage scan.
: 2. Which is the best equipment to inspect the above mentioned material?
: Thank you,
: Dao Huu Xuan, Vietnam
------------ End Original Message ------------

Dear Sir,
It is nice to see someone having similar interests. I think method (technic) described below is more efficient and better than modern advanced and complicated technics for UT of pipe thin welds (2-8 mm) and thin welds. We have long term experience in domain of UT of pipe welds. Our technical solutions of pipe welds UT are commonly performed in power engineering, thermic and fuel installations etc. Actually, after some modifications we are offering equipment and technic for UT. This technic is available in the Internet ( http://www.ultrasonic.home.pl/pdf/niezawodnosc/ibus_td_en.pdf ).
Most important technic features are:
- its very high sensitivity: 1mm hole is easily detected with difference between reading and noises over 20dB (page 15, Fig. 1-5)
- fast testing and immedietaly valuation
- technic validation with usage of DAC technic according to requirements of EN – ISO/IEC 17025

Testing can be performed manually or it can be joined with encoder for registration testing results.

If you need some more informations, please write to me.

Kind regards,
Wladyslaw Michnowski and Rafal Mis



 
 Reply 
 
Nigel Armstrong
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1096

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1096
01:50 Oct-04-2008
Re: Advanced UT for piping?
Greetings to all,

This has potential to become a very interesting thread as it highlights another problem which hinders the wider replacement of radiography by ultrasonics in the testing of pipe welds. Could we agree to keep it public by posting links etc on the forum, for our own referral and for the information of other colleagues (now and future) with similar inspection requirements.

I must confess my embarassment on first reading Dao Huu Xuan's initial post as I have not heard of ABI scan before so thanks for the brief explanation, Prasad and thanks for your honesty, Michael! A cursory Google search revealed its medical origins - yes folks I am another Google NDT engineer!!!

Prasad, I would be grateful if you could point me to more information regarding this technique in the industrial field, especially with reference to the difficult art of one-sided inspection (pipe to bend/flange/fitting, etc). What trials have been done using what defect types? Are there any published papers?

To date my undestanding is that for a high probability of detection (POD) of smooth-sided planar defects such as lack of sidewall defects with a pulse-echo (PE) technique, the major axis of the beam should be essentially perpendicular to the expected flaw orientation, e.g. for lack of side wall fusion the bevel angle. So, for PE coverage entails insonification (sorry!) at the appropriate angle for a high POD, something which is a big problem for PE techniques on pipe to fitting joints, whereas TOFD is not orientation dependent.

I have no direct experience of single-sided TOFD but, as an example, Shell Global Solutions has used it as V-TOFD to inspect weldolets, as described in the following paper:

http://www.ndt.net/article/ecndt2006/doc/Fr.2.2.3.pdf

There are other examples of the usage of single-sided TOFD, so I would be interested to know why you deem it impossible, Prasad.

I look forward to learning more of the ABI technique's capabilities with a resulting improvement in my understanding of the difficult science of pipe-to-fitting ultrasonic inspection.

Thanks gentlemen

Nigel


---------- StaOriginal Message -----------
: Dear Dao Huu Xuan,
: First of all the above said UT inspection methods should have been qualified at site.
: Secondly ABI scan is a pulse echo method with A and B-Scan-Enhancement Imaging will be obtained through the capturing and recording of the successive unprocessed A-Scans along the scanning path or in time progress. So just like in pulse echo if you can ensure the coverage from one side using diffrent angle beam probes etc , complying to the prevailing code; it is sufficient to carry out inspection from one side
:
: You need to have access for emitter and receiver probes to carry out TOFD. So it is impossible to carry out TOFD from one side.
: More details are required for the detailed reply
:
: Prasad
: : Hi all,
: : I have a witness an advanced UT inspection for piping 3" to 6" which is executed by a NDT service. Methodes used are ABI scan and TOFD. I was reject all scan result of joints scaned only one side.
: : My questions are.
: : 1. Are ABI scan and TOFD can inspect for joints pipe to fitting (L bowls and flanges) in diameter range of 3-6"? How to full coverage scan.
: : 2. Which is the best equipment to inspect the above mentioned material?
: : Thank you,
: : Dao Huu Xuan, Vietnam
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
 Reply 
 
Ed Ginzel
R & D, -
Materials Research Institute, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 1305

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1305
06:30 Oct-04-2008
Re: Advanced UT for piping?
Nigel: I think you have idntified the main item here, POD. UT replacing RT has usually been a suitable option for NDT, especially when the expected flaw is nonfusion. I recall a few years ago that in preparation for project I had requested a "flawless weld sample" in which to place my FBH targets along the fusion line for a pipe to flange weld examination. They arrived with the radiographic evidence (film) that these were clean welds. You can imagine my annoyance when calibrating at the FBHs and then moving along only 30-40mm and finding a long nonfusion line that was not supposed to be there. I guess I was lucky the FBH targets were not made directly over the LoF!

But NDT has NEVER assured 100% flaw detection. When conditions are not ideal the POD drops. In my example above the RT found zero flaws and my one-sided access UT found SOME flaws.
ASME has always acknowledged this and the wording implies that SOME inspection is better than NO inspection.

T-472.2 Restricted Access Welds. Welds that cannot
be fully examined from two directions using the angle
beam technique (e.g., corner and tee joints) shall also
be examined, if possible, with a straight beam technique.
These areas of restricted access shall be noted in the
examination report.

Regards
Ed

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Greetings to all,
: This has potential to become a very interesting thread as it highlights another problem which hinders the wider replacement of radiography by ultrasonics in the testing of pipe welds. Could we agree to keep it public by posting links etc on the forum, for our own referral and for the information of other colleagues (now and future) with similar inspection requirements.
: I must confess my embarassment on first reading Dao Huu Xuan's initial post as I have not heard of ABI scan before so thanks for the brief explanation, Prasad and thanks for your honesty, Michael! A cursory Google search revealed its medical origins - yes folks I am another Google NDT engineer!!!
: Prasad, I would be grateful if you could point me to more information regarding this technique in the industrial field, especially with reference to the difficult art of one-sided inspection (pipe to bend/flange/fitting, etc). What trials have been done using what defect types? Are there any published papers?
: To date my undestanding is that for a high probability of detection (POD) of smooth-sided planar defects such as lack of sidewall defects with a pulse-echo (PE) technique, the major axis of the beam should be essentially perpendicular to the expected flaw orientation, e.g. for lack of side wall fusion the bevel angle. So, for PE coverage entails insonification (sorry!) at the appropriate angle for a high POD, something which is a big problem for PE techniques on pipe to fitting joints, whereas TOFD is not orientation dependent.
: I have no direct experience of single-sided TOFD but, as an example, Shell Global Solutions has used it as V-TOFD to inspect weldolets, as described in the following paper:
: http://www.ndt.net/article/ecndt2006/doc/Fr.2.2.3.pdf
: There are other examples of the usage of single-sided TOFD, so I would be interested to know why you deem it impossible, Prasad.
: I look forward to learning more of the ABI technique's capabilities with a resulting improvement in my understanding of the difficult science of pipe-to-fitting ultrasonic inspection.
: Thanks gentlemen
: Nigel
:
: ---------- StaOriginal Message -----------
: : Dear Dao Huu Xuan,
: : First of all the above said UT inspection methods should have been qualified at site.
: : Secondly ABI scan is a pulse echo method with A and B-Scan-Enhancement Imaging will be obtained through the capturing and recording of the successive unprocessed A-Scans along the scanning path or in time progress. So just like in pulse echo if you can ensure the coverage from one side using diffrent angle beam probes etc , complying to the prevailing code; it is sufficient to carry out inspection from one side
: :
: : You need to have access for emitter and receiver probes to carry out TOFD. So it is impossible to carry out TOFD from one side.
: : More details are required for the detailed reply
: :
: : Prasad
: : : Hi all,
: : : I have a witness an advanced UT inspection for piping 3" to 6" which is executed by a NDT service. Methodes used are ABI scan and TOFD. I was reject all scan result of joints scaned only one side.
: : : My questions are.
: : : 1. Are ABI scan and TOFD can inspect for joints pipe to fitting (L bowls and flanges) in diameter range of 3-6"? How to full coverage scan.
: : : 2. Which is the best equipment to inspect the above mentioned material?
: : : Thank you,
: : : Dao Huu Xuan, Vietnam
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
 Reply 
 
Prasad
Director, NDT Consultant
Energy Workforce Group of Companies, Malaysia, Joined Aug 2003, 12

Prasad

Director, NDT Consultant
Energy Workforce Group of Companies,
Malaysia,
Joined Aug 2003
12
01:18 Oct-05-2008
Re: Advanced UT for piping?
Nigel:

My answers were project specific (based on the contract agreements) and I am unable to give more details in the forum at the moment with out client's permission as one way or other I am indirectly invloved in this ongoing job.

However I shall give more details about the ABI scan shortly.

Regards,

Prasad

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Nigel: I think you have idntified the main item here, POD. UT replacing RT has usually been a suitable option for NDT, especially when the expected flaw is nonfusion. I recall a few years ago that in preparation for project I had requested a "flawless weld sample" in which to place my FBH targets along the fusion line for a pipe to flange weld examination. They arrived with the radiographic evidence (film) that these were clean welds. You can imagine my annoyance when calibrating at the FBHs and then moving along only 30-40mm and finding a long nonfusion line that was not supposed to be there. I guess I was lucky the FBH targets were not made directly over the LoF!
: But NDT has NEVER assured 100% flaw detection. When conditions are not ideal the POD drops. In my example above the RT found zero flaws and my one-sided access UT found SOME flaws.
: ASME has always acknowledged this and the wording implies that SOME inspection is better than NO inspection.
: T-472.2 Restricted Access Welds. Welds that cannot
: be fully examined from two directions using the angle
: beam technique (e.g., corner and tee joints) shall also
: be examined, if possible, with a straight beam technique.
: These areas of restricted access shall be noted in the
: examination report.
: Regards
: Ed
: : Greetings to all,
: : This has potential to become a very interesting thread as it highlights another problem which hinders the wider replacement of radiography by ultrasonics in the testing of pipe welds. Could we agree to keep it public by posting links etc on the forum, for our own referral and for the information of other colleagues(now and future) with similar inspection requirements.
: : I must confess my embarassment on first reading Dao Huu Xuan's initial post as I have not heard of ABI scan before so thanks for the brief explanation, Prasad and thanks for your honesty, Michael! A cursory Google search revealed its medical origins - yes folks I am another Google NDT engineer!!!
: : Prasad, I would be grateful if you could point me to more information regarding this technique in the industrial field, especially with reference to the difficult art of one-sided inspection (pipe to bend/flange/fitting, etc). What trials have been done using what defect types? Are there any published papers?
: : To date my undestanding is that for a high probability of detection (POD) of smooth-sided planar defects such as lack of sidewall defects with a pulse-echo (PE) technique, the major axis of the beam should be essentially perpendicular to the expected flaw orientation, e.g. for lack of side wall fusion the bevel angle. So, for PE coverage entails insonification (sorry!) at the appropriate angle for a high POD, something which is a big problem for PE techniques on pipe to fitting joints, whereas TOFD is not orientation dependent.
: : I have no direct experience of single-sided TOFD but, as an example, Shell Global Solutions has used it as V-TOFD to inspect weldolets, as described in the following paper:
: : http://www.ndt.net/article/ecndt2006/doc/Fr.2.2.3.pdf
: : There are other examples of the usage of single-sided TOFD, so I would be interested to know why you deem it impossible, Prasad.
: : I look forward to learning more of the ABI technique's capabilities with a resulting improvement in my understanding of the difficult science of pipe-to-fitting ultrasonic inspection.
: : Thanks gentlemen
: : Nigel
: :
: : ---------- StaOriginal Message -----------
: : : Dear Dao Huu Xuan,
: : : First of all the above said UT inspection methods should have been qualified at site.
: : : Secondly ABI scan is a pulse echo method with A and B-Scan-Enhancement Imaging will be obtained through the capturing and recording of the successive unprocessed A-Scans along the scanning path or in time progress. So just like in pulse echo if you can ensure the coverage from one side using diffrent angle beam probes etc , complying to the prevailing code; it is sufficient to carry out inspection from one side
: : :
: : : You need to have access for emitter and receiver probes to carry out TOFD. So it is impossible to carry out TOFD from one side.
: : : More details are required for the detailed reply
: : :
: : : Prasad
: : : : Hi all,
: : : : I have a witness an advanced UT inspection for piping 3" to 6" which is executed by a NDT service. Methodes used are ABI scan and TOFD. I was reject all scan result of joints scaned only one side.
: : : : My questions are.
: : : : 1. Are ABI scan and TOFD can inspect for joints pipe to fitting (L bowls and flanges) in diameter range of 3-6"? How to full coveragescan.
: : : : 2. Which is the best equipment to inspect the above mentioned material?
: : : : Thank you,
: : : : Dao Huu Xuan, Vietnam
------------ End Original Message ------------




 
 Reply 
 
Yasser
Yasser
05:39 Jul-05-2010
Re: Advanced UT for piping?
In Reply to Prasad at 00:43 Oct-02-2008 .

Hi all.
Firstly I want to thanks to all the answers regarding the issue of one side scanning.
I have some questions related with this issue. For pipe to fittings joints the access is only form pipe. If the joints is elbow to elbow, 'T' to elbow, 'T' to 'T', 'T' to reducer, 'T' to flange and elbow to flange, which side I need to identify as access for scanning? Hope anybody here can help me with this doubt.

 
 Reply 
 

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