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Career Discussions
John
John
07:32 May-15-2006
Personnel Qualification and Certification


Do personnel qualified in NDT under EN 473 and/or ISO 9712 fulfill the requirements of the following?:-

ASME 2004 Section V Article 1, General Requirements, Paragraph T-120 General, item (f) States the following "national or International central certicication programs such as ASNT Central Certification Program (ACCP), may be alternatively used to fulfill the examination requiremnts of the documents listed in T-120(e) as specified in the employer's written practice." the documents listed under T-120(e) are SNT-TC-1A AND ANSI/ASNT CP-189.

Any guidance would be much appeciated.


    
 
 
Nigel
Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom, Joined Oct 2000, 1094

Nigel

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1094
07:33 May-15-2006
Re: Personnel Qualification and Certification
John

As always, provided that they are cited in the employer's written practice, then yes as EN473 meets the requirements of ISO 9712 which defines international central certification requirements. To be certain that a national central certification programme meets the ISO 9712 requirements, check that the certifying body is accredited to ISO/IEC 17024 : 2003 (Conformity assessment - General requirements for bodies operating certification of persons).

The essential point however is that unlike general practice in Europe, ASME/ASNT insists that certification is the responsibility of the employer. An NDT technician who holds an EN473 certificate and works for a company whose written practice allows the examination part of qualification to be carried out by an accredited central certification body will still need to be issued with an employer's certificate issued in accordance with that company's written practice. Use of central certifcation in many instances alleviates the need for the employer to installand maintain a comprehensive internal training and examination programme, particularly useful for SME's. Many training and examination centres here in the UK will provide training and examination in conformance with both the employer's written practice and the central certification documents in case of any mismatch so that the technicain receives both certifications. Many employers dont want this as once the tech is centra!
lly certified his/her central certificate is portanle.

Hope that helps.

Nigel

----------- Start Original Message -----------
:
: Do personnel qualified in NDT under EN 473 and/or ISO 9712 fulfill the requirements of the following?:-
: ASME 2004 Section V Article 1, General Requirements, Paragraph T-120 General, item (f) States the following "national or International central certicication programs such as ASNT Central Certification Program (ACCP), may be alternatively used to fulfill the examination requiremnts of the documents listed in T-120(e) as specified in the employer's written practice." the documents listed under T-120(e) are SNT-TC-1A AND ANSI/ASNT CP-189.
: Any guidance would be much appeciated.
------------ End Original Message ------------




    
 
 
John O'Brien
Consultant, -
Chevron ETC , USA, Joined Jan 2000, 278

John O'Brien

Consultant, -
Chevron ETC ,
USA,
Joined Jan 2000
278
01:57 May-15-2006
Re: Personnel Qualification and Certification
Nigels comments are valid. However remember ASME Section V only has any bearing when referenced by a referencing code. Many of the design codes have specific paragraphs that detail NDE certification. If these conflict with ASME V then it is the rule in the referencing code that applies.

Make sure you check individual design codes there are conflicts.


    
 
 
Jan Verkooijen
Director,
Sonovation, Netherlands, Joined Nov 1998, 29

Jan Verkooijen

Director,
Sonovation,
Netherlands,
Joined Nov 1998
29
04:33 Feb-19-2007
Re: Personnel Qualification and Certification
I have gone through many exercises where ASNT certification was required, and have always managed to get my EN 473 approved, in combination with our written practice which makes use of EN 473. However, I now have an Authorised Inspector that chooses not to accept it. The case is slightly different in that the end client has specifically asked for CP 189. CP 189 prescribes a valid ASNT certificate. In our WP we allow for EN 473 Level III as an alternative, as in response to the EC 2002 report on United States barriers to trade and investment, ASME recognise ISO 9712 and EN 473 certification. Has anybody had a similar experience and what is the solution?

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: John
: As always, provided that they are cited in the employer's written practice, then yes as EN473 meets the requirements of ISO 9712 which defines international central certification requirements. To be certain that a national central certification programme meets the ISO 9712 requirements, check that the certifying body is accredited to ISO/IEC 17024 : 2003 (Conformity assessment - General requirements for bodies operating certification of persons).
: The essential point however is that unlike general practice in Europe, ASME/ASNT insists that certification is the responsibility of the employer. An NDT technician who holds an EN473 certificate and works for a company whose written practice allows the examination part of qualification to be carried out by an accredited central certification body will still need to be issued with an employer's certificate issued in accordance with that company's written practice. Use of central certifcation in many instances alleviates the need for the employer to install and maintain a comprehensive internal training and examination programme, particularly useful for SME's. Many training and examination centres here in the UK will provide training and examination in conformance with both the employer's written practice and the central certification documents in case of any mismatch so that the technicain receives both certifications. Many employers dont want this as once the tech is centra!
: lly certified his/her central certificate is portanle.
: Hope that helps.
: Nigel
: :
: : Do personnel qualified in NDT under EN 473 and/or ISO 9712 fulfill the requirements of the following?:-
: : ASME 2004 Section V Article 1, General Requirements, Paragraph T-120 General, item (f) States the following "national or International central certicication programs such as ASNT Central Certification Program (ACCP), may be alternatively used to fulfill the examination requiremnts of the documents listed in T-120(e) as specified in the employer's written practice." the documents listed under T-120(e) are SNT-TC-1A AND ANSI/ASNT CP-189.
: : Any guidance would be much appeciated.
------------ End Original Message ------------




    
 
 
John O'Brien
Consultant, -
Chevron ETC , USA, Joined Jan 2000, 278

John O'Brien

Consultant, -
Chevron ETC ,
USA,
Joined Jan 2000
278
04:46 Feb-22-2007
Re: Personnel Qualification and Certification
Jan

the Authorised Inspector is quite within his rights. Whilst ASME Section V recognises International Certifications some of the design codes specifically address other certifications practices. Since Section V authority comes from the design code it is the design code rules that govern.

ASME is of course a minimum set of rules and if the contract has specific requirements such as CP 189 then the AI is duty bound to see that they are complied with.

The way out is to address the issue with the owner and ask him to relieve the CP 189 requirement in lieu of your EN473. This may or may not be possible depending upon where the vessel is bound for.


    
 
 
Adrian Pollock
Adrian Pollock
01:33 Mar-17-2007
Re: Personnel Qualification and Certification
Jan,

Have you looked into the possibility that a reciprocity agreement has been established between ASNT and the National Certifying Body that issued your EN-473 Level III certificate ?

If such an agreement exists, you might be able to get an ASNT Level III certificate fairly easily, which would at least be a step n the right direction.

Adrian


    
 
 
musicbox
musicbox
02:33 Jan-29-2008
Hello
Hi all !!!

End ^) See you


    
 
 
jackinth
jackinth
02:34 Jan-29-2008
Hello
Hi all !!!

End ^) See you


    
 
 

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