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Technical Discussions
Matt Golis
Matt Golis
01:51 Dec-18-2000
NDT in the Digital Age

What have we gained (or lost)in the transition from the old-time analog world and the newer digital age of NDT? Do we now have better flaw resolution, higher sensitivity, greater detection reliabiity, faster response systems? Are there things we can do in the analog world that are not bettered by being "converted" to the digital regime? What are the consequences of our analog signals being degraded when they become digitized? These are only a few of the questions for which we are seeking answers for a round-table, open discussion to be held during the fall 2001 ASNT conference in Columbus, Ohio.

We hope to cover the pros and cons related to the new NDT hardware, software and their practical utilization in the NDT lab and in the field.

We are seeking recommendations for speakers who can communicate effectively with the rank and file of the NDT community and who are very familiar with the current NDT digital environment. We also seek realistic examples of where the field of NDT has been enhanced (or degraded) as a result of the race to become part of the "digital" age.

Please send your observations, comments and recommendations to either this forum or mattgolis@columbus.rr.com

The ultimate goal of the planned session is to develop a clear understanding of the strengths and weaknesses that exist in the current array of NDT equipment and systems. This understanding will then be translated into training materials for use in future NDT courses.

Thanks for your kind consideration in this rather global venture.


    
 
 
Boyd Howard
Consultant, In-house NDT consultant
Westinghouse Savannah River Company, USA, Joined Aug 2000, 3

Boyd Howard

Consultant, In-house NDT consultant
Westinghouse Savannah River Company,
USA,
Joined Aug 2000
3
00:13 Dec-19-2000
Re: NDT in the Digital Age
Matt,

I have been involved with analog nondestructive testing since 1956. My mentor was R.B. Socky, a former president of ASNT. I have held ASNT Level III certifications off and on since 1980. My certification number is EV-770.

Since 1987 I have been re-educating myself to the digital ultrasonic and digital radiography testing world. I have spoken about this transformation at ASNT and other conferences. My most recent talk was at the Digital Radiography III meeting in Connecticut. My close associates, Rick Poland and David Immel, all of Westinghouse Savannah River Company and I are speaking on this very subject at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory on the 11th of January. Another of our colleagues, Arnost Placr, is doing wonders with digital ultrasonic flaw detection technologies. I believe that any or all of us could be or should be involved in the discussions at the Fall Conference.

Just a thought!

Boyd Howard 803-725-3765
Rick Poland 803-725-1998
Dave Immel 803-725-3174
Arnost Placr 803-725-4874

------------
: What have we gained (or lost)in the transition from the old-time analog world and the newer digital age of NDT? Do we now have better flaw resolution, higher sensitivity, greater detection reliabiity, faster response systems? Are there things we can do in the analog world that are not bettered by being "converted" to the digital regime? What are the consequences of our analog signals being degraded when they become digitized? These are only a few of the questions for which we are seeking answers for a round-table, open discussion to be held during the fall 2001 ASNT conference in Columbus, Ohio.

: We hope to cover the pros and cons related to the new NDT hardware, software and their practical utilization in the NDT lab and in the field.

: We are seeking recommendations for speakers who can communicate effectively with the rank and file of the NDT community and who are very familiar with the current NDT digital environment. We also seek realistic examples of where the field of NDT has been enhanced (or degraded) as a result of the race to become part of the "digital" age.

: Please send your observations, comments and recommendations to either this forum or mattgolis@columbus.rr.com

: The ultimate goal of the planned session is to develop a clear understanding of the strengths and weaknesses that exist in the current array of NDT equipment and systems. This understanding will then be translated into training materials for use in future NDT courses.

: Thanks for your kind consideration in this rather global venture.




    
 
 
Matt Golis
Matt Golis
01:40 Dec-19-2000
Re: NDT in the Digital Age
Boyd -

Thanx for the response. How do you and your associates characterize the transition? Has digitization improved the overall technical performance of our NDT efforts or merely made the logistics of inspections more convenient through storing data (calibration setups, records of inspections, etc.) and yielding pictographic renditions (B-, C-, spectral scans, etc.)where before only the A-scan was available.

Do we get radiographic images that are somehow superior to the "best" film techniques? Can our visual acuity tell the difference? What are your thoughts on the relative "costs" associated with newer imaging schemes? These are some of the topics we would like to flesh-out and expand upon in our Fall conference seminar.

What will you be saying to the LLNL folks on these matters?


: Matt,

: I have been involved with analog nondestructive testing since 1956. My mentor was R.B. Socky, a former president of ASNT. I have held ASNT Level III certifications off and on since 1980. My certification number is EV-770.

: Since 1987 I have been re-educating myself to the digital ultrasonic and digital radiography testing world. I have spoken about this transformation at ASNT and other conferences. My most recent talk was at the Digital Radiography III meeting in Connecticut. My close associates, Rick Poland and David Immel, all of Westinghouse Savannah River Company and I are speaking on this very subject at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory on the 11th of January. Another of our colleagues, Arnost Placr, is doing wonders with digital ultrasonic flaw detection technologies. I believe that any or all of us could be or should be involved in the discussions at the Fall Conference.

: Just a thought!

: Boyd Howard 803-725-3765
: Rick Poland 803-725-1998
: Dave Immel 803-725-3174
: Arnost Placr 803-725-4874

: ------------
: : What have we gained (or lost)in the transition from the old-time analog world and the newer digital age of NDT? Do we now have better flaw resolution, higher sensitivity, greater detection reliabiity, faster response systems? Are there things we can do in the analog world that are not bettered by being "converted" to the digital regime? What are the consequences of our analog signals being degraded when they become digitized? These are only a few of the questions for which we are seeking answers for a round-table, open discussion to be held during the fall 2001 ASNT conference in Columbus, Ohio.

: : We hope to cover the pros and cons related to the new NDT hardware, software and their practical utilization in the NDT lab and in the field.

: : We are seeking recommendations for speakers who can communicate effectively with the rank and file of the NDT community and who are very familiar with the current NDT digital environment. We also seek realistic examples of where the field of NDT has been enhanced (or degraded) as a result of the race to become part of the "digital" age.

: : Please send your observations, comments and recommendations to either this forum or mattgolis@columbus.rr.com

: : The ultimate goal of the planned session is to develop a clear understanding of the strengths and weaknesses that exist in the current array of NDT equipment and systems. This understanding will then be translated into training materials for use in future NDT courses.

: : Thanks for your kind consideration in this rather global venture.




    
 
 
Boyd Howard
Consultant, In-house NDT consultant
Westinghouse Savannah River Company, USA, Joined Aug 2000, 3

Boyd Howard

Consultant, In-house NDT consultant
Westinghouse Savannah River Company,
USA,
Joined Aug 2000
3
06:28 Dec-21-2000
Re: NDT in the Digital Age
Matt,

Politically, it has not been an easy transition to go from film to digital. In fact, there are times when one feels like you are "pushing a rope." We are convinced that the "probability of detection" is far greater with our digital radiographic imaging methods. Convincing others has been more difficult, but we are making progress. The evidence that we have produced by head-to-head comparisons between conventional and digital radiography should convince anyone. That is the story we wish to tell at your session in Columbus.

I'll not try to answer all of your questions here, but if forum member would look at cmosx-ray.com, they claim that one of their digital systems pays for itself in four months. One of our on-site users is claiming that 40% of this year's cost savings is due to the digital x-ray and analysis system that they are using. That system is providing better data, unbelievably faster, with fewer personnel, generates no radioactive or hazardous waste, and analyzes the images automatically.

I'll ask Arnost Placr to respond to your questions about ultrasonic inspection.

Boyd
-----------


: Boyd -

: Thanx for the response. How do you and your associates characterize the transition? Has digitization improved the overall technical performance of our NDT efforts or merely made the logistics of inspections more convenient through storing data (calibration setups, records of inspections, etc.) and yielding pictographic renditions (B-, C-, spectral scans, etc.)where before only the A-scan was available.

: Do we get radiographic images that are somehow superior to the "best" film techniques? Can our visual acuity tell the difference? What are your thoughts on the relative "costs" associated with newer imaging schemes? These are some of the topics we would like to flesh-out and expand upon in our Fall conference seminar.

: What will you be saying to the LLNL folks on these matters?

:
: : Matt,

: : I have been involved with analog nondestructive testing since 1956. My mentor was R.B. Socky, a former president of ASNT. I have held ASNT Level III certifications off and on since 1980. My certification number is EV-770.

: : Since 1987 I have been re-educating myself to the digital ultrasonic and digital radiography testing world. I have spoken about this transformation at ASNT and other conferences. My most recent talk was at the Digital Radiography III meeting in Connecticut. My close associates, Rick Poland and David Immel, all of Westinghouse Savannah River Company and I are speaking on this very subject at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory on the 11th of January. Another of our colleagues, Arnost Placr, is doing wonders with digital ultrasonic flaw detection technologies. I believe that any or all of us could be or should be involved in the discussions at the Fall Conference.

: : Just a thought!

: : Boyd Howard 803-725-3765
: : Rick Poland 803-725-1998
: : Dave Immel 803-725-3174
: : Arnost Placr 803-725-4874

: : ------------
: : : What have we gained (or lost)in the transition from the old-time analog world and the newer digital age of NDT? Do we now have better flaw resolution, higher sensitivity, greater detection reliabiity, faster response systems? Are there things we can do in the analog world that are not bettered by being "converted" to the digital regime? What are the consequences of our analog signals being degraded when they become digitized? These are only a few of the questions for which we are seeking answers for a round-table, open discussion to be held during the fall 2001 ASNT conference in Columbus, Ohio.

: : : We hope to cover the pros and cons related to the new NDT hardware, software and their practical utilization in the NDT lab and in the field.

: : : We are seeking recommendations for speakers who can communicate effectively with the rank and file of the NDT community and who are very familiar with the current NDT digital environment. We also seek realistic examples of where the field of NDT has been enhanced (or degraded) as a result of the race to become part of the "digital" age.

: : : Please send your observations, comments and recommendations to either this forum or mattgolis@columbus.rr.com

: : : The ultimate goal of the planned session is to develop a clear understanding of the strengths and weaknesses that exist in the current array of NDT equipment and systems. This understanding will then be translated into training materials for use in future NDT courses.

: : : Thanks for your kind consideration in this rather global venture.




    
 
 
Rolf Diederichs
Director, Editor
NDT.net, Germany, Joined Nov 1998, 602

Rolf Diederichs

Director, Editor
NDT.net,
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
602
09:31 Dec-22-2000
Re: NDT in the Digital Age

I agree that we have received not only benefits with the digital techniques.
For instants I noticed that ultrasonic flaw detectors replaced the analog damping
with digital setting of just a few increments of e.g. 50 ohm, 1000 ohm. But for some
applications it is still a need to adjust the damping almost continuously.

Rolf

------------
: What have we gained (or lost)in the transition from the old-time analog world and the newer digital age of NDT? Do we now have better flaw resolution, higher sensitivity, greater detection reliabiity, faster response systems? Are there things we can do in the analog world that are not bettered by being "converted" to the digital regime? What are the consequences of our analog signals being degraded when they become digitized? These are only a few of the questions for which we are seeking answers for a round-table, open discussion to be held during the fall 2001 ASNT conference in Columbus, Ohio.

: We hope to cover the pros and cons related to the new NDT hardware, software and their practical utilization in the NDT lab and in the field.

: We are seeking recommendations for speakers who can communicate effectively with the rank and file of the NDT community and who are very familiar with the current NDT digital environment. We also seek realistic examples of where the field of NDT has been enhanced (or degraded) as a result of the race to become part of the "digital" age.

: Please send your observations, comments and recommendations to either this forum or mattgolis@columbus.rr.com

: The ultimate goal of the planned session is to develop a clear understanding of the strengths and weaknesses that exist in the current array of NDT equipment and systems. This understanding will then be translated into training materials for use in future NDT courses.

: Thanks for your kind consideration in this rather global venture.




    
 
 
Wolfgang Bisle
Wolfgang Bisle
01:10 Jan-15-2001
Re: NDT in the Digital Age
Reading some of the comments I have the feeling of most thinking quiet "old fashioned". Sure, if I compare techniques which have had a good quality already in analog times like X-Ray, Ultrasonix you are missing today sometimes a lot of old but very usefull stuff. Digital operation often means huge and confusing menues, pixel screens with quiet low resolution....

But we got a lot of new imaging techniques. For instance the colour C-scan, which helps us to speed up interpretations, improving the readability of documents etc.

But even more if we look to optical inspection techniques. You couldn't do shearography without digital image processing. Thermography - thermal wave imaging is a major break through for thermography in for instance aerospace NDT - because of digital image processing. LaserUltrasonics - forget it with analog electronics. You need computers to control the instrument and to combine the data for a readable document.
Of coarse: still a major portion of InService NDT in aircraft maintenance is done in the "analog" way: maybe the instruments circuit board has changed to digital, but the method is still the same as in former analog times.

Still we have not implemented the full scale of possibilities of the digital future. But we are making progress: We are currently starting a project we call 4M: MultiMediaMaintenanceManual.
This is the Internet-based manual, communication between electronic inspection manual and inspection equipment, databases, etc.; this is data fusion, automated lifecycle monitoring etc.; all shall give us more informations about the quality and behaviour of the tested structure, shall reduce the human error, shall help to improve the safety of inspected parts.
Nothing without the digital world.

So what for to discuss old times. Maybe we must identify some of the remaining draw backs of the digital age, must look for more good combination of analog and digital circuits. Not everything must be digital. Analog computers have been sometimes much faster than theirdigital counterparts and even easier to maintain. My opinion in this case is: It's a pitty that there are only a few people left in the design offices, which understand analog electronic good enough to recognize the potential. This is the most severe draw back of the digital age.


    
 
 

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