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23:29 Mar-17-2009
Sunil Deshpande
Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA

There is no international Phased array qualification besides British PCN.
Canada and the USA must hurry to make a certification available.
Perhaps they could simply model it on PCN, with permission.

I also have heard of a very irresponsible effort to make a privately-developed certification enforced accross the Americas. A consultant from the USA has created a phased array training program and wants to make this official across the continents. it is not clear to me if he is qualified in phased array. His qualification involves a very expensive performance demonstration that lasts 3 days. he has the support of a man in the Canadian Government NDT who is sending emails to industry.

I ask readers of this website to state their opinions, why are we allowing a private person to dictate training, when this should be done through government with consultation with industry? This private initiative is doomed to fail and will create much animosity.

Sincere Regards
Mr. Sunil Deshpande


    
 
23:53 Mar-17-2009

Michel Couture

NDT Inspector,
consultant,
Canada,
Joined Sep 2006
819
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Sunil Deshpande at 23:29 Mar-17-2009 (Opening).

Sunil,

Maybe before making a statement regarding the way other countries are directing their certification program, you should get all the facts.

You don't mention this person's name or even how he is tie to the Canadian Government. I personally know many individual in Canada who are very knowledgeable and are members of various commitees which actually makes the decision on how we as a nation will govern the accreditation of our technicians. I as a Canadian, am very confident of our certification process and I'm sure that the powers to be will make the proper decision regarding this matter.

On the other hand, I am a little skeptical of a person from who we know very little except their email address because they can't be bother to fully sign-up as member of this forum and come here to basically stir the pot or as one said: "create such animosity", based on rumours and hearsakes.

I find that such a comments is very often initiated by people who are unwilling to put the money and effort in proper training and are always looking for a loopole to get certified and maybe even an easy way to get a green card.

Cherrio's


    
 
23:51 Mar-18-2009

Nigel Armstrong

Engineering, - Specialist services
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 2000
1094
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Sunil Deshpande at 23:29 Mar-17-2009 (Opening).

Wrong Sunil. CSWIP also awards PAUT ISO 9712/EN 473 compliant certificates.


    
 
02:02 Mar-19-2009
Sunil Deshpande
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Nigel Armstrong at 23:51 Mar-18-2009 .

Mr. Armstrong, I thank you for your correction.
Mr. Couture, I can assure you I was most hurt by your comments.
As a Canadian, I too take great pride in our NDE certificates. I do believe that a person who brings up a concern is also showing caring and pride.
Mr. Couture, I would ask that you talk to the contacts that you mentioned before you accuse me of hearsay.
And now, I would like to make this important question again: we must vigorously question, debate, and investigate why phased array is being debated behind closed doors instead of between government and industry.

Sincerest Regards,
Mr. Sunil Deshpande


    
 
17:13 Mar-19-2009

Michel Couture

NDT Inspector,
consultant,
Canada,
Joined Sep 2006
819
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Sunil Deshpande at 02:02 Mar-19-2009 .

Sunil,

I'm sorry that you feel most hurt by my comments, but I still stand by them.

You stated that: "As a Canadian, I too take great pride in our NDE certificates. I do believe that a person who brings up a concern is also showing caring and pride."

Well Sunil, if that is your real name, as of Mar 18, 2009 your name doesn't appear on the Natural Resources Canada website of Certified NDT Personnel (http://www.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/mms-smm/ndt-end/pdf/cert_ndt_personnel.pdf). Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you're not holding any Canadian Certification? If it is the case, it doesn't look like you have much pride after all!!!

As for: "Accusing you of hearsay", you are the one who brought up this topic, but didn't divulge your source. You say you live in Canada? Well in Canada, when someone bring forth something like this, someone should have the guts to openly make its case. If what you say is true, naming names shouldn't bring you any trouble.

Like I said previously, you didn't bother to even register in this forum (which is free by the way), so in reality no one knows who you really are unliky the majority of us. Looks to me like a case of the pot who's calling the kettle black.

I also did a qwick check on Canadian members of this site and to date, their are 126, yet you are the only one who gripe about the Canadian Certification system! Not only that, since this forum is international, I don't even think this topic should be discuss here. If it is really true what you are saying, there are many organisations and societies in Canada who could deal with this problem. And if you live in Canada, you should be familiar with them. As for the cost of testing, if what you say comes true, you should know that we have means of compensation for such expenses. So the cost shouldn't be a matter.

Like I said before, you sounds more like a person who work in NDT without recognised training and certification. I don't mean that you don't know what you are doing, but if this Phase Array Certification was to come about, you would end up loosing your job. That's the bottom line!

As far as I'm concerned, no one in the world should be doing NDT without recognised certification. By recognised certification I means: ISO, CGSB, PCN, CSWIP and ASNT (ACCP). The work we do and the decision we make as technicians are too important to allow those who don't belong in our business.


    
 
16:45 Mar-20-2009
Sunil Deshpande
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Michel Couture at 17:13 Mar-19-2009 .

Mr. Couture:

This very valuable and professional website is free and open to all who wish to contribute debate and opinions, which I have done with conscience and integrity.

By your personal attacks against me, you have ignored and stifled any debate on the important issues I was raising.

Goodbye.
Mr. Sunil Deshpande


    
 
17:44 Mar-20-2009

Gerry King

NDT Inspector, Consultant, Trainer
Ontario Power Generation,
Canada,
Joined Apr 2003
4
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Michel Couture at 17:13 Mar-19-2009 .

Michel, I feel I must reply to your latest post. Your limitless confidence in our Certification body to do the right thing is heartening, but possibly naive. Personally, I feel that there have been past decisions that were not in the best interest of the industry ( remember the attempt to privatize the system many years ago? - just one instance). Being a public servant myself, I know that there are times when the quick reaction is to do the easiest thing, not the best. It is our duty as the users of the system to keep informed and to protest if we feel that inappropriate choices are being made.

I really think your last post is a bit over the top - there is no need to be attacking others on this site. We really should be attempting to keep the discussion professional and civil.

For the record - I have heard the same "hearsay" as Mr. Deshpande from several sources which I trust. Since I haven't been able to corroborate that information, I will just leave it at that, but perhaps there are others who could shed light on it?? Ed, do you have any info?

Gerry King
(for those who don't know me, you CAN look me up on the NrCan website)


    
 
18:31 Mar-20-2009

Ed Ginzel

R & D, -
Materials Research Institute,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
1211
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Gerry King at 17:44 Mar-20-2009 .

Gerry...I concur with your thoughts on this (in all regards). Indeed we have been lagging behind the rest of the world here in Canada (and the America's) with regards to certification in the advanced UT options. European efforts are forging ahead and PCN and CSWIP options are good examples of effective systems. We have made efforts here in Canada in the past but it would seem that most here are more concerned with the short term costs than the long term benefits so these efforts were ignored. Since Canada adopted ISO9712 the function of the CGSB NDT committee is now in question (my opinion) so any activities relating to any new certification are somewhat "rudderless". Options have been suggested and in fact discussions have been taking place. However, NRCan has continually failed to put the mechanisms in place to even initiate the process in accordance with ISO 9712 requirements.


    
 
19:41 Mar-20-2009

Dent

Consultant, NDE Manager NDELevel III/3
NDT Consultant,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
247
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Ed Ginzel at 18:31 Mar-20-2009 .

Well said Ed.

NRCan are currently in turmoil.
Losing people, moving to Hamilton, do not expect anything real soon from them on new certifications. Try getting a phone message returned or an e mail answered.
Oh and what about our recertification process? It's still up in the air.


    
 
00:25 Mar-21-2009

Michel Couture

NDT Inspector,
consultant,
Canada,
Joined Sep 2006
819
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Gerry King at 17:44 Mar-20-2009 .

Well Gerry,

This lack of certification goes along the same way I feel about SNT TC-1A. Company run certification which is only as good as the level of integrity and effort that the ones in charge wants to put into. This is why I'm a little hirk when someone try to sound the horn to battle, yet they keep hiding behing a"gmail address". Do I agree with everything NRCan is doing? No, but this is what we got and from reading of other sources, much better than others. I agree with Ed and Dent. We're suppose to be ISO Certified, yet it seems that our tickets are not worth much outside of Canada! This puzzles me. If we meet the ISO criteria, shouldn't we be recognised?

I think you said it best, when you said that since you can't corroborate the information, you'll leave it at that. And until we have more proof in this matter that is exacly what should be done.

Now do I believe there should be Certification? Absolutly! One reason is that it will ensure that technicians are should be qualified in what they do. Along the same lines, I would hate to go to someone who calls himslef a doctor, yet I can't verify is credentials. Pretty scary. Another reason is that it will prevent some unscrupulous companies to charge big bucks for inspection yet pay technicians peanuts, because apparently they're not really qualified/certified. And if the technician tries to do anything about it, well his stuck between a rock and a hard place, because when he quits, he's got nothing to show for.

If you're received proper training from a well recognised institution and know what you're doing, you shouldn't be afraid of the examination process! Now, am I Phase Array trained? Not really, I never received the proper training from the proper people. What I got is someone showing what they wanted so that i could do the job I was paid for. Am I happy about it? Again, NO.

In closing, as far as being professional, like I said before, when you're a professional you should be able to hand over a businees card or some form of identification to prouve who you are. I've handed my business card, I took the time to register to this site and many people including yourself can confirm my identity, not so of other people.


    
 
12:08 Mar-21-2009

Rolf

Director, Editor, Publisher, Internet, PHP MySQL
NDT.net,
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
602
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Michel Couture at 17:13 Mar-19-2009 .

Beside the professional matter I want to point to another issue which raised in this discussion. Although I like more that people subscribe their profiles we shall not blame people which want to participate anonym. There are a lot of pros and cons of personal data in social networks so everyone needs to decide for themselves. The very early NDT Newsgroup failed because of lack of personal data, by means with whom we are talking. Who wants to go into more deep discussion how the forum should handle this matter please use the new board "About NDT.net".

Rolf


    
 
07:10 Mar-22-2009
J. Blow
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Dent at 19:41 Mar-20-2009 .

Try getting your CGSB exams marked! I completed my UT exams early February? Written & practical are still not marked yet?........It's Dissapointing :(

Regards, Joe


    
 
15:34 Mar-22-2009

Michel Couture

NDT Inspector,
consultant,
Canada,
Joined Sep 2006
819
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to J. Blow at 07:10 Mar-22-2009 .

Yes Joe,

Totally agree with you on this one. One guy that works with me is in the same boat. It seems now that now matter where you go, people don't have that sense of urgency any more. Prompt and effecient service seems to be a thing of the past.


    
 
15:09 Mar-23-2009

Stan Banner

NDT Inspector,
Canada,
Joined Jan 2009
31
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Michel Couture at 15:34 Mar-22-2009 .

Just echoing Joe on the same matter.
I wrote my UT III in Jan 21, and last week was told by CanMet that not only have they not yet marked my exam, but they have no idea when it will be marked. Frustrating.

Stan


    
 
19:43 Mar-23-2009
Ryan Burns
Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Sunil Deshpande at 16:45 Mar-20-2009 .

Dear Colleagues,

With respect to the original comment and concern of Mr. Deshpande, I agree. I also have an idea of whom he speaks initiating a Procedure Demonstration Qualification administered and approved by himself. In my opinion, this has been driven by the requests of some big oil and gas producers to have SOME sort of assurance that PA technicians have a certain level of competency. Again, I agree that the CGSB should move forward on ISO implementation and a full certification of PA and TOFD technicians, but in the interim, I see nothing wrong with the customer requesting that the inspectors that visit their site, working with a fairly complex and still very operator dependant method, have proven themselves to a standard. Be it one of the customers own exams (think Amoco pre-qualification tests) or that of an independent that has the AI/Owner User's approval. In the end, it is not my job to question if the qualification scheme is legit or not. If I want the work, I'll just have to submit to the requirements of the people who pay the bills.

Regards,

Ryan.


    
 
22:56 Jun-26-2011
joseph Antony
Re: Re: Phased Array Quailfication in Canada USA In Reply to Ryan Burns at 19:43 Mar-23-2009 .

I am from Fort Mcmurray, like to study NDT program and registered for MT & PT classes for August. Can anyone help me to get some practical knowledge in my new career.


    
 


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