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Technical Discussions
Manish
Manish
11:54 May-14-2009
Penetrameter in Radigraphy

As per code penetrameter shall be kept in souce side.What is the reason for same?In some cases we are unable to keep in source side (kpet in film side).What will be the disadvantage?

    
 
 
tj
tj
15:24 May-14-2009
Re: Penetrameter in Radigraphy
In Reply to Manish at 11:54 May-14-2009 (Opening).

Manish,

If the penetrameter is placed on film side it is not susceptible to the same unsharpness variables that are present with the specimen itself (see geometric unsharpness in your code/standard). Some codes will allow this placement in certain cases if the penetrameter is marked correctly (with an F).

    
 
 
Roger Duwe
NDT Inspector, API-510, 570, 653
MISTRAS, USA, Joined Jan 2009, 148

Roger Duwe

NDT Inspector, API-510, 570, 653
MISTRAS,
USA,
Joined Jan 2009
148
19:31 May-14-2009
Re: Penetrameter in Radigraphy
In Reply to tj at 15:24 May-14-2009 .

Manish, look at AWS D1.1 or ASME Sect V. They both have penetrameter charts based on the material thickness. When the penetrameter is placed Film-Side, a smaller one is mandated. Thus the requirement for the lead letter 'F' to be placed on the penetrameter. As TJ noted, a Film-Side penetrameter will be much clearer in the RT image, so a smaller one is required to prove the sensitivity of the image.

    
 
 
Neil Burleigh
Sales
Krautkramer Australia Pty Ltd, Australia, Joined Dec 2002, 153

Neil Burleigh

Sales
Krautkramer Australia Pty Ltd,
Australia,
Joined Dec 2002
153
00:10 May-15-2009
Re: Penetrameter in Radigraphy
In Reply to Manish at 11:54 May-14-2009 (Opening).

Hello Manish,
I have seen the posts in response to your request they have all provided the correct information but I think they have not answered your question.
1. Penetrameter what is the other name for this item? It is IQI or image quality indicator.
What is a radiographic image? It is an image of a part that has been exposed to radiation showing density variations. Therefore a penetrameter confirms the minimum resolvable density variation.
From this you should be able to determine why the IQI is on the source side or as Roger Duwe has said a smaller penetrameter is placed on the film side to prove sensitivity.

Regards

    
 
 
tortoro
tortoro
00:08 May-16-2009
Re: Penetrameter in Radigraphy
In Reply to Neil Burleigh at 00:10 May-15-2009 .

u did not answer his question u only explained what an IQI is. the question was what is the disadvantage.

    
 
 
Nilesh Pathare
Nilesh Pathare
14:28 May-16-2009
Re: Penetrameter in Radigraphy
In Reply to Manish at 11:54 May-14-2009 (Opening).

Dear Manish,
As per the code requirement the Penetrameter shall be kept at source side whenever practicable.
This is required for -
1. To check the Ug unsharpness is not exceeding the acceptable limit. If Ug exceeds then you will not able to see the required wire or hole for that Thickness.
2. It ensures that it will show the minimum discontinuity throughout the job thickness equivalent to wire dia. or hole dia. when you can see the particular wire or hole when the Penetrameter is kept on Source side.
3. Whenever you are keeping the Penetrameter on film side code asks to view smaller diameter wire /hole to compensate the absorption through the job thickness.

    
 
 
tj
tj
02:36 May-18-2009
Re: Penetrameter in Radigraphy
In Reply to Nilesh Pathare at 14:28 May-16-2009 .

1. Just because Ug exceeds acceptable limits, this does not mean that you will not see the penetrameter holes.

2. I would not refer to the penetrameter holes as guidlines for minimum discontinuity or in any other way related to acceptance criteria. It is to determine sensitivity of the radiograph. This can confuse new technicians.

3. Compensating for absorption has nothing to do with film/source side placement. It is simply the geometric effects related to forming the image.

    
 
 
NDTIII
NDTIII
07:03 May-18-2009
Re: Penetrameter in Radigraphy
In Reply to tj at 02:36 May-18-2009 .

Thank you NDT Inspector. I'd just like to elaborate a little on the subject.

I believe the intent of source side placement is merely to place the IQI in the least favorable location under the least favorable conditions, where practicable.

Remember the IQI is the only means we have to judge the quality of the image or technique. Nothing more.

    
 
 
tortoro
tortoro
13:57 May-18-2009
Re: Penetrameter in Radigraphy
In Reply to NDTIII at 07:03 May-18-2009 .

now that answers the question

    
 
 

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