I think we can't generalize things like these. There are many Asian engineers and senior inspectors like me paid on par with any other western expat , in offshore projects. It depends on the invidual, and his expertise and also communication skill, and problem solving ability in a short time available during production, and many more... Most of the European countries require an EU permit to work in that country, so only the europeans can work there.. Even in India , a recent offshore project offered to Indian personnel,day rates comparable with western expats... It is going to be a never ending discussion, about qualification and certification, and there will be no impact on the exisiting rates offered to the asians by this discussion...It depends on the company policy to decide the package based on their budget and the candidates are free to accept or reject. In fact, in my career, I rejected many low offers and also companies refused to accept my demand on many occasions because their project budjet restrictions!!!So, it is better to get more experience in latest technologies and equipments , get certified and then I think automatically the pay will become more attractive..
ndt.net is intrinsically a technical forum and as such there is no place for such an illogcal rant as "most of (sic) Asians...(are) more productive than Europeans", nor the inverse nor any such odious illogical comparisons. It appears that you have a "bee in your bonnet" and I hope that you realise that you are dealing with your frustrations by making "Europeans" in general your scapegoats. Please I do not doubt that you have come across an European who you think less "qualified" and "productive" than yourself earning more than you do - this is the nature of human society, a society where often those of most benefit to that society earn least and those of least benefit often earn most. Are you prepared to work to remedy such injustice - its a long hard slog requiring selfless dedication with possibly no tangible results in your own lifetime.
As NDT engineers/practitioners/inspectors we are a band of brothers attempting to pose problems and find solutions for each other and for posterity no matter our condition, race, nationality or religion. I respect as much the desire to learn of all people as I do the depth of learning and the willingness to share that learning of posters from all backgrounds - I access the forums practically every day because of the quality of information shared.
Regarding pay scale differentials, Mr Prabhu's post is the complete intelligent answer to your "opinion", as he succintly points out the futility, both to you personally and in general, of pursuing such a topic.
I hope you reconcile your disturbance and appreciate the benefit to you of working in a multi-national environment.
What gives you the right to criticise how much someone else is earning, regardless of race and qualifications ?
Such a short sighted and negative view.
You have the European problem because i suspect that no one in Europe will give you a job.
I find your statement disgusting and the chances of you getting anything positive from this is marginal and quite possibly the offer of work within Europe being seriously reduced as it is a very small world.
I sympathize for your frustration but cannot agree with your comments. I do not see your profile in the forum so there is no way to know your qualifications, experience and the work atmosphere where you have picked up such ideas.
By the time I have seen the forum mail already four gentlemen namely Mr. John Doe, Mr. S.R.G.PRABHU, Mr. Anjafo and Mr. Nigel Armstrong posted their replies to your comments.
I entirely agree with each one of their comments. All that you have to do is carefully read and analyze their mature and restrained replies to your not so apt comments.
I did a stint of 7 months training in NDT and metallurgy in Europe, about 35 years back. Subsequently visited other western countries including USA at various times in connection with NDT and other technical aspects. In all those occasions, I have learned more about their positive attitudes apart from NDT. If I have to single out two outstanding aspects of their culture they are highly diligent and their commitment to systems is total.
Well, I can go on with this topic for ever but the point I am making is that you have obviously jumped to your conclusions with limited and superficial observations. As Mr. Prabhu said if you want to be counted, you have to work hard and no short cuts in that. If you are ignored once step up your performance and make it difficult to be ignored second time. While there may be a few local and purely subjective aberrations no system can ever put a lid on ones knowledge from shining.
I expect you to post a positive mail in the forum in the near future.
I have read your post and I followed what other NDT pro's have posted in reply to your post. I think that there are two contributing factors when it comes to rate of pay. Firstly you must bear in mind that the cost of living in a European country is ten times as expensive as in India. I am working on a project in Saudi and I have spoken to many of my Indian friends. They earn about a quarter of what I earn, but their living expenses at home are a quarter of what mine are in South-Africa.
The second factor is that many training schools(in India) are going for mass production of classes. When you flood the market with poorly trained individuals who are hungry, they will work for any rate of pay. I am not saying that you do not know your way around your job, but I have encountered many NDT techs who have a very poor understanding of NDT in general. This is most common in specialised areas of NDT i.e radiography and ultrasonics. I get the feeling that you are a hard worker and that you do a good job. Stick to this and remember that knowledge is power. Continue your hard work and study to further your knowledge. Compare apples with apples.
I have worked with many "asians" in the Middle East and Far East and find the same types of people that we get with Europeans and Americans, the very competent to the dangerously incompetent.
Pay rates are based on what you will accept, if you think the pay and conditions offered are not suitable, walk away. The only way to improve is if everyone refuses to accept then the companies have to up the terms.
As for differing pay rates, these do depend a lot on home country rates (especially in the Middle East), if you work abroad you expect some multiplier of the home country rate, I once worked with some Indian technicians who were on 10 times their home country rates and went home after their work very wealthy people. I wish I could have got an uplift of 10 times my average home salary. They were willing to sacrifice increased home leaves and accommodation status to maximise money earned.
We also had a hard core of excellent asian technicians and supervisors who were on western pay scales but they had proven themselves and were the equal of any technician irrespective of home country.
As Shaun Botha says, there are a lot of people coming on the market with very little experience except in a compressed training course who have to be overseen and further trained at company expense. The company obviously wants to reclaim these costs and one way is to suppress wage levels. So they affect not only their countrymen but everyone on the project.
This not only applies to Level I and II technicians, some holding Level III certification following a training course have a big negative impact on our profession as they know almost nothing but go around spreading incorrect information and demean the rest of the Level III's. Companies and clients rely on the Level III for knowledgable and helpful information often on safety critical components. Unfortunately where the company is only interested in profit, a Level III working at a cheap rate is very attractive.
Obviously you feel that you are not getting sufficient reward for your efforts, but if you are capable and hard working there are companies out there that appreciate this and it is up to you to find them and prove yourself. By taking low paid jobs with poor benefits, you are not helping yourself or others in the same position to improve conditions.
I assume you are an western expat. I was never interested in working in Singapore for not only they pay astonishingly low rates but the jobs are few. The term 10 times uplift than their home country salary of asians doesn't sound appropriate. I can't imagine lot of people(Asians) skipping their vacation and making more money. I am afraid it is their own problem or wish, and please mind it, many asians donot spend the money earned , as much lavish as some of my friends from western countries do. They(Asians) want to make money and settle down in their home country...is it anything wrong? My chief in one of my projects from USA stayed one whole year in Paris skipping his regular rotation....Just to save money...Is it anything wrong? So, please donot go again to the point that asians making 10 times money, skip vacation etc etc...Just try to give some information about the topic discussed.i.e,
I think this is not the issue but, rather a issue of local labor laws in the countrys involved.
and the issue of people willing to "work for Less" so this drives salarys down.
I have met many Asians working in australia for instance, and YES they are on Equal Wages. But however this is the LAW in this country. Many companys still try to get around it though, and once the authoritys find out it made news headlines. I.E. Mcdermits angel project"
and also why Attach europeans? I have met many underpaid Europeans. This is not a issue directly affecting Asians. Maybe just more prominent as there are more Asians in this world and more willing to work for less, hence why they stand out from the rest.
and I have compared my Cost of living in my home country with fellow asian workers, and when they Actually found out the Cost of my living I.E. monthly mortgage payments and the cost of Fuel and food/transport/ general living. they infact where Alot better off than myself.
So more of reason of why they are happy to accept lower wages.
Gentlemen from western countries....
Please note that the living standards have changed in India drastically in the past few years...If you compare the living standard in your country and mine, you would be surprised that in cities like Mumbai and Chennai, it is costlier than Europe except Switzerland!!!
So, please stop this discussion about the salary earned and just go back to technical discussion by which all will beneifit...I sincerely think that We can't explain certain things in life like some people born rich, get jobs easily, come up in career ladder with lot of ease...Can we??Thats life and destiny...