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- since 1996 -

Materials Research Institute
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Technical Discussions
Nguyen Trong My
Director,
Vietnam Inspection Solutions Co., Ltd, Vietnam, Joined May 2000, 22

Nguyen Trong My

Director,
Vietnam Inspection Solutions Co., Ltd,
Vietnam,
Joined May 2000
22
13:16 Jan-19-2010
Verification of Ultrasonic flaw detector as per EN 12668-1

We have verified an ultrasonic flaw detector as per EN 12668-1, group 2
and found that one of their parameters, namely the rise time of the pulse, was not within the min and max tolerances. Please advice if we could stick a calibration label on and issue certification for this instrument. Please advice also if we could use EN 12668-1 for EN 126681-Non-Complient- flaw detectors.
Thank you,
My

    
 
 Reply 
 
Udo Schlengermann
Consultant, -
Standards Consulting, Germany, Joined Nov 1998, 177

Udo Schlengermann

Consultant, -
Standards Consulting,
Germany,
Joined Nov 1998
177
16:05 Jan-26-2010
Re: Verification of Ultrasonic flaw detector as per EN 12668-1
In Reply to Nguyen Trong My at 13:16 Jan-19-2010 (Opening).

Hello,

Compliance of an ultrasonic instrument to a standard means all stipulations of the standard have to be fulfilled.
So if you measure a parameter which does not comply, it means the instrument will not comply to the used standard.
The answer to your first question is: No, you are not allowed to certify this instrument to comply to EN 12668-1.
Of course you can use some of the procedures given in EN12668-1 to measure ultrasonic instruments which do not fully comply.
The answer to your second question therefore is: You can list the procedures and the results for the parameters which fulfill the requirements, but you are not allowed to certify such an instrument as complying to EN 12668-1.

PS: There seems to be some confusion about the term 'calibration'. EN 12668-1 is used for 'verification and characterisation' of an instrument. You measure, whether the parameters fulfill the requirements or not, but usually you cannot change them (re-calibrate them). Only after repair at the manufacturer's shop where electronic modules are exchanged a 'calibration' of an ultrasonic instrument can be done.
Setting of an ultrasonic instrument for a specific test job, e.g. is covered by EN 583-2: Sensitivity and range setting (not 'calibration'), and is not covered by EN 12668-1.

Best regards
Udo Schlengermann
Convener of CEN/TC138/WG2

    
 
 Reply 
 
Nguyen Trong My
Director,
Vietnam Inspection Solutions Co., Ltd, Vietnam, Joined May 2000, 22

Nguyen Trong My

Director,
Vietnam Inspection Solutions Co., Ltd,
Vietnam,
Joined May 2000
22
15:02 Jan-30-2010
Re: Verification of Ultrasonic flaw detector as per EN 12668-1
In Reply to Udo Schlengermann at 16:05 Jan-26-2010 .

Hi Udo,
Thank you for your clear clarification.
My
Vietnam Inspection Solutions Co., Ltd
Vietnam

    
 
 Reply 
 
joel nyaga
joel nyaga
06:46 Apr-26-2013
Re: Verification of Ultrasonic flaw detector as per EN 12668-1
In Reply to Udo Schlengermann at 16:05 Jan-26-2010 .

Is it then right to send an equipment out for calibration and it comes without a inspection report detailing the work scope of parameters altered or checked as per EN 12668 only to come with a calibration certificate from the calibrating centre (maincal)?
Rgds.

    
 
 Reply 
 
Sudheer Jai Krishnan
Sudheer Jai Krishnan
16:42 Apr-26-2013
Re: Verification of Ultrasonic flaw detector as per EN 12668-1
In Reply to joel nyaga at 06:46 Apr-26-2013 .

We perform the calibration of our Ultrasonic Flaw Detectors (Epoch Series) as per EN12668 calibration and we do provide a complete certificate which contains full details.

    
 
 Reply 
 
joel nyaga
joel nyaga
11:52 Apr-27-2013
Re: Verification of Ultrasonic flaw detector as per EN 12668-1
In Reply to Sudheer Jai Krishnan at 16:42 Apr-26-2013 .

Can someone send me a checklist form/document on things that are supposed to be checked, verified and documented as per EN 12668 or EN 583-2. We are soon getting accreditation of ISO 17025 for calibration purposes. Or isn't that enough to calibrate our NDT equipments, esp the UT ? What about other ndt eqpts?
Rgds.

    
 
 Reply 
 
Joe Buckley
Consultant, ASNT L-III, Honorary Secretary of BINDT
Level X NDT, BINDT, United Kingdom, Joined Oct 1999, 522

Joe Buckley

Consultant, ASNT L-III, Honorary Secretary of BINDT
Level X NDT, BINDT,
United Kingdom,
Joined Oct 1999
522
22:19 Apr-27-2013
Re: Verification of Ultrasonic flaw detector as per EN 12668-1
In Reply to joel nyaga at 11:52 Apr-27-2013 .

A few clarifications:

1. Measuring pulse rise/fall time accurately is quite difficult. Make sure you have the right equipment to do it. small variations in load reactance can make a big difference

2. If the Instrument was not designed to meet 12668-1 you can use most of the same approaches, but the result is not going to meet 12668-1 so why would you - use a less demanding approach.

3. In general when you send an instrument off for calibration you will get three choices of documentation.

i) A basic cal cert saying its good.

ii) (i) plus full data measured after any adjustments have been made.

iii) (i) and (ii) plus full data as received. i.e before any adjustments were made. This allows a determination to be made as to whether inspection results obtained using the instrument are valid, or whether work will have to be repeated.

Generally you pays your money and takes your choice.

4. joel. Have you reviewed 12668-1 and looked at how you will meet it? If not I suggest you do so and seek clarification if there are specific issues you don't understand - Good luck with that.

Joe


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