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- since 1996 -
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Shaik Mohiuddin
Engineering
ST AVIATIONS SERVICES COMPANY LTD, Singapore, Joined Jan 2002, 6

Shaik Mohiuddin

Engineering
ST AVIATIONS SERVICES COMPANY LTD,
Singapore,
Joined Jan 2002
6
06:48 Mar-13-2002
NDT Certification

I am refering to NAS 410 Standard

As Per NAS410 for Level I, II and III, the specific examination shall be closed book. I believe that closed book means without access to any material. However, the purpose of specific examination is to assess the candidate's ability on understanding of a codes, standards, specification, procedures and techniques. In practical situation, no inspection is allowed, if procedures/techniques are not referenced. Then why exam should be conducted closed book.Also whats the difference between a general type examination and specific, if this is the matter.

Any light on the above topic is highly appreciated.

Thanks and regards
Shaik



 
 Reply 
 
Dave Wilkes
Dave Wilkes
09:30 Mar-13-2002
Re: NDT Certification
Closed book exams are as you say, without access to
any written material, which in ndt exams usually means
the specification. Why exam authorities persist in closed book exams is a good question. I would rather
see an open book exam where the questions can judge the candidates ability to use the specification correctly rather than their ability to memorise the
specification without necessarily actually understanding it.

A general exam in MPI for example, would have general
questions about the technique which do not refer
to any specification. A specific exam in MPI would
have questions referring to a given specification.


A general exam in MPI for example, would have general
questions about the technique which do not refer
to any specification. A specific exam in MPI would
have questions refering to a given specification.

Hope this helps.

Dave Wilkes
Asst Editor
NDTCabin.com "The internet magazine for ndt professionals"



 
 Reply 
 
Kris Smestad
Kris Smestad
05:04 Mar-14-2002
Re: NDT Certification
Refer to section 3.4 of NAS 410...You may include specs as part of the examination

: I am refering to NAS 410 Standard
.
: As Per NAS410 for Level I, II and III, the specific examination shall be closed book. I believe that closed book means without access to any material. However, the purpose of specific examination is to assess the candidate's ability on understanding of a codes, standards, specification, procedures and techniques. In practical situation, no inspection is allowed, if procedures/techniques are not referenced. Then why exam should be conducted closed book.Also whats the difference between a general type examination and specific, if this is the matter.
.
: Any light on the above topic is highly appreciated.
.
: Thanks and regards
: Shaik
.



 
 Reply 
 
Nick Welland
Other, Quality and NDT
Aben Technical Services, Australia, Joined Oct 1999, 42

Nick Welland

Other, Quality and NDT
Aben Technical Services,
Australia,
Joined Oct 1999
42
01:33 Mar-17-2002
Re: NDT Certification
: Closed book exams are as you say, without access to
: any written material, which in ndt exams usually means
: the specification. Why exam authorities persist in closed book exams is a good question. I would rather
: see an open book exam where the questions can judge the candidates ability to use the specification correctly rather than their ability to memorise the
: specification without necessarily actually understanding it.
.
: A general exam in MPI for example, would have general
: questions about the technique which do not refer
: to any specification. A specific exam in MPI would
: have questions referring to a given specification.
.
:
: A general exam in MPI for example, would have general
: questions about the technique which do not refer
: to any specification. A specific exam in MPI would
: have questions refering to a given specification.
.
: Hope this helps.
.
: Dave Wilkes
: Asst Editor
: NDTCabin.com "The internet magazine for ndt professionals"
.


I believe there is strong justification for closed book examinations for the general theory papers: the purpose of an examination is to test the candidate's knowledge of the subject. Looking up references for the science and technology of a test method is clearly unsatisfactory.
However, there is a case to be made for open-book Specific papers. In the real world, it is quite true that one must carry (and use!) the code one is testing to - memory is unreliable when one may be testing to three or four diffent codes in one day's assignments.
I must comment that I have always found closed-book exams much more difficult than open-book.
Regards
Nick


 
 Reply 
 
Thomas F. Murphy
NDT Inspector
USA, Joined Jul 2000, 16

Thomas F. Murphy

NDT Inspector
USA,
Joined Jul 2000
16
00:17 Mar-18-2002
Re: NDT Certification
Hello all,

In our organization we have 40-50 individuals who maintain NDE certifications. We use closed book general examinations, as well as closed book specific examinations. An open book specific examination is to test the familiarity with the specifications covered. This may be accomplished by either of two methods (IMHO). A closed book specific exam without a time limit assures an individual at least took some effort to review the specification by which he earns his/her living. An open book examination is entirely reasonable, most practical examinations require that the person being audited have in his/her possession a copy of the spec to which they are working to. However, an open book specific exam should include a time limit to ensure that not only the person can look things up, but also that they are sufficiently familiar with the specification to look it up in a reasonable period of time.

As to general exams, my opinion is that basic formulae and look up charts such as; for example Snells law and ultrasonic velocities should be included in a method exam. The basis of measurement should be ability to recognize and apply formulae rather than memorize them.

I would be interested in dissenting opinions that criticize a standard that includes closed book specific exams and general exams that include information such as general formulae and basic test characteristics.

Regards,
Tom

: : Closed book exams are as you say, without access to
: : any written material, which in ndt exams usually means
: : the specification. Why exam authorities persist in closed book exams is a good question. I would rather
: : see an open book exam where the questions can judge the candidates ability to use the specification correctly rather than their ability to memorise the
: : specification without necessarily actually understanding it.
: .
: : A general exam in MPI for example, would have general
: : questions about the technique which do not refer
: : to any specification. A specific exam in MPI would
: : have questions referring to a given specification.
: .
: :
: : A general exam in MPI for example, would have general
: : questions about the technique which do not refer
: : to any specification. A specific exam in MPI would
: : have questions refering to a given specification.
: .
: : Hope this helps.
: .
: : Dave Wilkes
: : Asst Editor
: : NDTCabin.com "The internet magazine for ndt professionals"
: .
.
:
: I believe there is strong justification for closed book examinations for the general theory papers: the purpose of an examination is to test the candidate's knowledge of the subject. Looking up references for the science and technology of a test method is clearly unsatisfactory.
: However, there is a case to be made for open-book Specific papers. In the real world, it is quite true that one must carry (and use!) the code one is testing to - memory is unreliable when one may be testing to three or four diffent codes inone day's assignments.
: I must comment that I have always found closed-book exams much more difficult than open-book.
: Regards
: Nick
.



 
 Reply 
 
Fred Raco, Jr.
Fred Raco, Jr.
04:06 Mar-18-2002
Re: NDT Certification (specific exams)
I have been reading the postings and replies about this subject for several days and I want to add my take on the subject. I do not understand the concept of closed book specific examinations. I have always taught my students not to memorize any part of a code or specification due to the possibility of error. In the commercial testing industry, we work to over 100 different codes, specifications, and customer requirements. Some of the differences are great and some are subtle. I want to test ones ability to correctly extract information from the code, not dare attempt to memorize it. Open book specific examinations have suited my needs for over 20 years in the business. I would need some real evidence to change my mind now.
Respectfully,
Fred Raco, Jr.
Senior Examiner - RNDT
ASNT NDT Level III UT RT AE MT PT VT
AWS-CWI, API-510


 
 Reply 
 
David Smart
David Smart
05:43 Aug-29-2002
Re: NDT Certification
: Refer to section 3.4 of NAS 410...You may include specs as part of the examination
.
: : I am refering to NAS 410 Standard
: .
: : As Per NAS410 for Level I, II and III, the specific examination shall be closed book. I believe that closed book means without access to any material. However, the purpose of specific examination is to assess the candidate's ability on understanding of a codes, standards, specification, procedures and techniques. In practical situation, no inspection is allowed, if procedures/techniques are not referenced. Then why exam should be conducted closed book.Also whats the difference between a general type examination and specific, if this is the matter.
: .
: : Any light on the above topic is highly appreciated.
: .
: : Thanks and regards
: : Shaik
: .
.
The "General" that they are talking about has to deal with the theory of the particular NDT method. The "Specific" is your companys use of the NDT method. In other words, the individual must be trained on your specific manuals,proceadures, equipment and standards. The "Theory" portion must be closed book, but I belive that the "Specific" can be open Book so they can look up your policies and procedures.

Hope this helps

Dave


 
 Reply 
 
Mel Garcia
Mel Garcia
04:29 Dec-05-2002
NAS410
What's the latest revision of NAS410 and what's the Product Support?


 
 Reply 
 

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