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David Hermanutz
Consultant,
Hbndt.com, China, Joined Jul 2012, 85

David Hermanutz

Consultant,
Hbndt.com,
China,
Joined Jul 2012
85
00:01 Oct-05-2002
ACCP Grandfathering

Hi,

Recently seen a discussion on the Canadian INDE website That warrants a look.

The subject matter deals with the recent decision of the ACCP to accept grandfathered Asnt in house tickets to the ACCP third party certification program.

http://www.cinde.ca/cgi-bin/bb/YaBB.cgi?board=QandA


 
 Reply 
 
Anonymous
Anonymous
05:40 Oct-06-2002
Re: ACCP Grandfathering
: Hi,
.
: Recently seen a discussion on the Canadian INDE website That warrants a look.
.
: The subject matter deals with the recent decision of the ACCP to accept grandfathered Asnt in house tickets to the ACCP third party certification program.
.
: http://www.cinde.ca/cgi-bin/bb/YaBB.cgi?board=QandA
.
I think it defeats the purpose of having ACCP.


 
 Reply 
 
Dent McIntyre
Consultant, NDE Manager NDELevel III/3
NDT Consultant, Canada, Joined Nov 1998, 250

Dent McIntyre

Consultant, NDE Manager NDELevel III/3
NDT Consultant,
Canada,
Joined Nov 1998
250
04:40 Oct-07-2002
Re: ACCP Grandfathering
PLEASE JOIN IN THE FORUM AT CINDE.

The ACCP grandfather issue is important to us all.

We need you input. Why is it good or not good for us?


: : Hi,
: .
: : Recently seen a discussion on the Canadian INDE website That warrants a look.
: .
: : The subject matter deals with the recent decision of the ACCP to accept grandfathered Asnt in house tickets to the ACCP third party certification program.
: .
: : http://www.cinde.ca/cgi-bin/bb/YaBB.cgi?board=QandA
: .
: I think it defeats the purpose of having ACCP.
.



 
 Reply 
 
David Davies
David Davies
05:18 Oct-08-2002
Re: ACCP Grandfathering
: PLEASE JOIN IN THE FORUM AT CINDE.
.
: The ACCP grandfather issue is important to us all.
.
: We need you input. Why is it good or not good for us?
.
.
:
: : : Hi,
: : .
: : : Recently seen a discussion on the Canadian INDE website That warrants a look.
: : .
: : : The subject matter deals with the recent decision of the ACCP to accept grandfathered Asnt in house tickets to the ACCP third party certification program.
: : .
: : : http://www.cinde.ca/cgi-bin/bb/YaBB.cgi?board=QandA
: : .
: : I think it defeats the purpose of having ACCP.
: .
.
"I feel that grandfathering is an admission of failure by ASNT. The scheme has been available for several years and doesn't seem to have taken off. To build numbers in this way is just destroying the self esteem of people that passed the exams. Instead of trying to increase the number of qualified technicians by giving away certs, ASNT should work on the regulatory authorities to make central certification compulsory. There are other schemes such as PCN and CSWIP that don't have to resort to these tactics because they have the backing of the users. As a long time ASNT Level III I work to make companies act in a professional manner towards certification. I feel that grandfathering pulls the rug out from under my feet".


 
 Reply 
 
Bjarne Larsen
Bjarne Larsen
04:20 Oct-28-2002
Re: ACCP Grandfathering
I believe that it is of great importance that ASNT now joins many organisations outside the United States working with independant third party certification.

I find it quite logical that the introduction of ACCP is followed by a transition period (Grandfathering".
When we introduced EN 473 in 1993 in Europe we also had a transition period where we issued EN 473 certificates to persons formerly certified according to other schemes including SNT-TC-1A.

When we needed to do that in Europe it is even more needed in the U.S. where there are so few independantly certified.

Kind regards

Bjarne Larsen

: : Hi,
: .
: : Recently seen a discussion on the Canadian INDE website That warrants a look.
: .
: : The subject matter deals with the recent decision of the ACCP to accept grandfathered Asnt in house tickets to the ACCP third party certification program.
: .
: : http://www.cinde.ca/cgi-bin/bb/YaBB.cgi?board=QandA
: .
: I think it defeats the purpose of having ACCP.
.



 
 Reply 
 
John
Engineering,
Aerospace, USA, Joined Oct 2002, 2

John

Engineering,
Aerospace,
USA,
Joined Oct 2002
2
02:29 Nov-05-2002
Re: ACCP Grandfathering
: : PLEASE JOIN IN THE FORUM AT CINDE.
: .
: : The ACCP grandfather issue is important to us all.
: .
: : We need you input. Why is it good or not good for us?
: .
: .
: :
: : : : Hi,
: : : .
: : : : Recently seen a discussion on the Canadian INDE website That warrants a look.
: : : .
: : : : The subject matter deals with the recent decision of the ACCP to accept grandfathered Asnt in house tickets to the ACCP third party certification program.
: : : .
: : : : http://www.cinde.ca/cgi-bin/bb/YaBB.cgi?board=QandA
: : : .
: : : I think it defeats the purpose of having ACCP.
: : .
: .
: "I feel that grandfathering is an admission of failure by ASNT. The scheme has been available for several years and doesn't seem to have taken off. To build numbers in this way is just destroying the self esteem of people that passed the exams. Instead of trying to increase the number of qualified technicians by giving away certs, ASNT should work on the regulatory authorities to make central certification compulsory. There are other schemes such as PCN and CSWIP that don't have to resort to these tactics because they have the backing of the users. As a long time ASNT Level III I work to make companies act in a professional manner towards certification. I feel that grandfathering pulls the rug out from under my feet".
.

I don't think its a failure of ASNT to force central certification upon the industry, rather a failure of the industry to recognise its benefits. I think its a good idea to grandfather in those who were reluctant in the past to join. Why spend the money to get centrally certified when its not a requirement, if ASNT did not do this then no one would have joined. At least now it has a chance of becoming a standard. In regards to demeaning others that have taken and passed the test, the recertification period will weed out those are not up to the task. I like you have been certified as an ASNT level III, but would spend the money to become centrally certified because it would not be of a benefit to myself or my company, however if this gets a foothold and becomes a standard I think most of the companies will realise the benefits.


 
 Reply 
 
David Davies
David Davies
03:17 Nov-06-2002
Re: ACCP Grandfathering
: : : PLEASE JOIN IN THE FORUM AT CINDE.
: : .
: : : The ACCP grandfather issue is important to us all.
: : .
: : : We need you input. Why is it good or not good for us?
: : .
: : .
: : :
: : : : : Hi,
: : : : .
: : : : : Recently seen a discussion on the Canadian INDE website That warrants a look.
: : : : .
: : : : : The subject matter deals with the recent decision of the ACCP to accept grandfathered Asnt in house tickets to the ACCP third party certification program.
: : : : .
: : : : : http://www.cinde.ca/cgi-bin/bb/YaBB.cgi?board=QandA
: : : : .
: : : : I think it defeats the purpose of having ACCP.
: : : .
: : .
: : "I feel that grandfathering is an admission of failure by ASNT. The scheme has been available for several years and doesn't seem to have taken off. To build numbers in this way is just destroying the self esteem of people that passed the exams. Instead of trying to increase the number of qualified technicians by giving away certs, ASNT should work on the regulatory authorities to make central certification compulsory. There are other schemes such as PCN and CSWIP that don't have to resort to these tactics because they have the backing of the users. As a long time ASNT Level III I work to make companies act in a professional manner towards certification. I feel that grandfathering pulls the rug out from under my feet".
: .
.
: I don't think its a failure of ASNT to force central certification upon the industry, rather a failure of the industry to recognise its benefits. I think its a good idea to grandfather in those who were reluctant in the past to join. Why spend the money to get centrally certified when its not a requirement, if ASNT did not do this then no one would have joined. At least now it has a chance of becoming a standard. In regards to demeaning others that have taken and passed the test, the recertification period will weed out those are not up to the task. I like you have been certified as an ASNT level III, but would spend the money to become centrally certified because it would not be of a benefit to myself or my company, however if this gets a foothold and becomes a standard I think most of the companies will realise the benefits.
.


You answer your first point yourself, "If ASNT did not do this then no one would have joined"
My problem is not with the ACCP scheme itself, in fact I feel that it should replace the existing ASNT Level III. Over the years I have seen many ASNT Level III's who passed the written examinations but are very poor on the practical aspects, academics with no experience of the job are being put in positions of responsibility. When I did my ASNT Level III's I had to gather extensive proof of experience given in sealed testimonials (in some ways this was harder than the exam itself, having to contact ex-employers some of whom no longer traded), this independent verification now being removed and allowing applicants to, in effect, verify themselves.
I was not demeaning others who have taken the test, I still say that, for what is in many ways a practical skill, the elevation to the upper levels (Level III) can be achieved with no practical skill at all. It must be galling to people who went through the examinations to know that non practical personnel can get the same qualification by submitting paperwork and a fee.
Many training documents and courses are available to give sufficient theoretical knowledge to pass the exam. I am fully behind any initiative to replace ASNT Level III with ACCP Level III (with practical content) so long as the entry requirements are suitably strict.
ASNT should be working very hard to convince end users of the necesity for ACCP at all levels. The worldwide trend is to central certification and ASNT should be taking a major role in this. Other organisations are able to hold practical examinations in all corners of the world, surely ASNT can do the same.
Level I and Level II central certification covering the general and basics of the method followed by in house specific modules (run by ACCP Level III) on the companies actual equipment and products would be my way to go.





 
 Reply 
 
Bill Cook
Bill Cook
03:39 Nov-06-2002
Re: ACCP Grandfathering

: I was not demeaning others who have taken the test, I still say that, for what is in many ways a practical skill, the elevation to the upper levels (Level III) can be achieved with no practical skill at all. It must be galling to people who went through the examinations to know that non practical personnel can get the same qualification by submitting paperwork and a fee.

I, too, have had problems in accepting the ASNT Level III program as it exists. I never felt that just taking the paper exam was sufficient. I have come across so damn many Level III's that were almost hopeless on practical applications. I always wanted to think that a Level III was a Super Level II. Alas, that has not been the case. Look at how many Indian Level III's there are. In India, they have a school that just churns out "book taught" Level III's. There are some good ones, but the majority have little to no practical experience. To me, ACCP is the ONLY way to have a true Level III. It irks me to no end when I have 45 years of practical experience and some guy, just out of a training program can claim to be as qualified as I, just because he has his Level III. BTW I am an ASNT Level III.




 
 Reply 
 

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