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- since 1996 -

Matec Instrument Companies, Inc.
Ultrasonic test instrumentation and systems for scientific research, quality control inspection and production testing applications.

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Technical Discussions
Viswanathan
Viswanathan
07:40 Feb-21-2005
Braze joint inspection

Could anybody help us to develop a technique for braze inspection?. Two MS material blocks of maximum thickness 2 mm joined together using brazing. Brazing done using application of braze paste followed by furnace heating. Excess brazing is machined off to have a flat surface. Joint not feasible for radiography due to complex configuration of the part. PT is being carried out. But, premature failure of the braze joint might occur without volumetric inspection. ECT and MT also maynot be possible as two different materials are invloved. COuld anybody suggest a best method to inspect the braze area?
Thanks a lot for your help


Braze joint inspection needs to be done



    
 
 Reply 
 
viswanathan
viswanathan
05:19 Feb-22-2005
Re: Braze joint inspection
Hi Dave,

Thanks for the suggestion. UT using Backwall echo can be done only if the brazing plane is in between two MS plates. But, in our case, brazing is done to connect two plates laterally side by side. Braze width is around 0.010". Due to low material thickness (2 mm thick) , angle beam UT also cannot be done.
Thanks again.

Viswanathan
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Hello,
: We have performed successful braze characterization by using UT inspection. Essentially, detecting the echo from a backwall would represent the fully unbrazed condition; brazing dimishes the amplitude of such a signal. Development of this concept must establish a threshold signal that would be present on an acceptable braze. As a general guide, I've found that saturating the backwall signal to 100% FSH on a detector, then adding 12-18dB additional gain, will be a good starting point for settings on your P/R. Then scan with a detection gate corresponding to backwall signals.
------------ End Original Message ------------




    
 
 Reply 
 
PV SASTRY
R & D, NDT tecniques metallurgy
TAKEN VRS FROM THE POSITION OF SR. DEPUTY GENERAL MANAGER BHEL CORPORATE R&D, India, Joined Jan 2003, 195

PV SASTRY

R & D, NDT tecniques metallurgy
TAKEN VRS FROM THE POSITION OF SR. DEPUTY GENERAL MANAGER BHEL CORPORATE R&D,
India,
Joined Jan 2003
195
07:06 Feb-22-2005
Re: Braze joint inspection
Dear Sir,

It is essential to know the complete geometry of the joint before a solution is given. I think high resolution UT can be used to examine brazed joints of the dimensions (Thickness)mentioned by you.

We have carried out the examination of the brazed joints btween two strips of about 2mm thicness and many other complications, by using immersion technique. We used an equipment that can easily resolve about ten micron thickmess of the joint or parent material. We have put gates only for the brazed joint and the examination clearly revealed not only the bonding or lack of it but also the quality of brazing since we can resolve any 10micron layer of about 100 micron thick brazed material. Back echo method is another alternative but not in our application where the the area of the joint is very small.Also it is better to view the joint itself(if we can) instead of surmizing.

Unfortunately the method we used, is applicable only with immersion technique. Send us details of geometry to examine the feasibility.

Good luck to you.

---
-------- Start Original Message -----------
: Could anybody help us to develop a technique for braze inspection?. Two MS material blocks of maximum thickness 2 mm joined together using brazing. Brazing done using application of braze paste followed by furnace heating. Excess brazing is machined off to have a flat surface. Joint not feasible for radiography due to complex configuration of the part. PT is being carried out. But, premature failure of the braze joint might occur without volumetric inspection. ECT and MT also maynot be possible as two different materials are invloved. COuld anybody suggest a best method to inspect the braze area?
: Thanks a lot for your help
:
:
: Braze joint inspection needs to be done
------------ End Original Message ------------




    
 
 Reply 
 
Godfrey Hands
Consultant,
PRI Nadcap, United Kingdom, Joined Nov 1998, 298

Godfrey Hands

Consultant,
PRI Nadcap,
United Kingdom,
Joined Nov 1998
298
08:17 Feb-22-2005
Re: Braze joint inspection
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Could anybody help us to develop a technique for braze inspection?. Two MS material blocks of maximum thickness 2 mm joined together using brazing. Brazing done using application of braze paste followed by furnace heating. Excess brazing is machined off to have a flat surface. Joint not feasible for radiography due to complex configuration of the part. PT is being carried out. But, premature failure of the braze joint might occur without volumetric inspection. ECT and MT also maynot be possible as two different materials are invloved. COuld anybody suggest a best method to inspect the braze area?
: Thanks a lot for your help
:
:
: Braze joint inspection needs to be done
------------ End Original Message ------------


Hi,
I have seen quite a few replies to this application, and none of them seems to satisfy the need. Perhaps these parts are very small (especially with 2mm thickness).
My thoughts go to Resonant Inspection using a Quasar system if these are small components (i.e. not larger than about 2.5 cm square or diameter). This would certainly detect those joints with a compromised structural integrity, althouh it would not produce a picture from a C-Scan.
It also does not require parallel faces, and can be applied on complex geometries.
It would give you a Go/NoGo answer within about 5 to 6 seconds, so is ideal for a mass produced application, and can be easily automated.
If this is a description of your application, please get in touch, and we will discuss how we can work together to inspect your parts.

Regards,

Godfrey Hands
Godfrey@ndt-consultants.co.uk



    
 
 Reply 
 
Viswanthan
Viswanthan
09:42 Feb-23-2005
Re: Braze joint inspection
Hi,

Thanks for all the suggestions. Our part dimensions are 150 mm x 40 mm and it is weighing around 0.5 kg each. So, I doubt whether resonant inspection can work.

Thanks,
Viswanathan.

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: : Could anybody help us to develop a technique for braze inspection?. Two MS material blocks of maximum thickness 2 mm joined together using brazing. Brazing done using application of braze paste followed by furnace heating. Excess brazing is machined off to have a flat surface. Joint not feasible for radiography due to complex configuration of the part. PT is being carried out. But, premature failure of the braze joint might occur without volumetric inspection. ECT and MT also maynot be possible as two different materials are invloved. COuld anybody suggest a best method to inspect the braze area?
: : Thanks a lot for your help
: :
: :
: : Braze joint inspection needs to be done
:
: Hi,
: I have seen quite a few replies to this application, and none of them seems to satisfy the need. Perhaps these parts are very small (especially with 2mm thickness).
: My thoughts go to Resonant Inspection using a Quasar system if these are small components (i.e. not larger than about 2.5 cm square or diameter). This would certainly detect those joints with a compromised structural integrity, althouh it would not produce a picture from a C-Scan.
: It also does not require parallel faces, and can be applied on complex geometries.
: It would give you a Go/NoGo answer within about 5 to 6 seconds, so is ideal for a mass produced application, and can be easily automated.
: If this is a description of your application, please get in touch, and we will discuss how we can work together to inspect your parts.
: Regards,
: Godfrey Hands
: Godfrey@ndt-consultants.co.uk
------------ End Original Message ------------





    
 
 Reply 
 
Norman Broyer
Norman Broyer
08:41 Feb-24-2005
Re: Braze joint inspection
try using a percentage of bond method. I have done this before using an ultrasonic machine with a CRT(such as a Krautkramer-Branson USL-48)

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: Hi,
: Thanks for all the suggestions. Our part dimensions are 150 mm x 40 mm and it is weighing around 0.5 kg each. So, I doubt whether resonant inspection can work.
: Thanks,
: Viswanathan.
: : : Could anybody help us to develop a technique for braze inspection?. Two MS material blocks of maximum thickness 2 mm joined together using brazing. Brazing done using application of braze paste followed by furnace heating. Excess brazing is machined off to have a flat surface. Joint not feasible for radiography due to complex configuration of the part. PT is being carried out. But, premature failure of the braze joint might occur without volumetric inspection. ECT and MT also maynot be possible as two different materials are invloved. COuld anybody suggest a best method to inspect the braze area?
: : : Thanks a lot for your help
: : :
: : :
: : : Braze joint inspection needs to be done
: :
: : Hi,
: : I have seen quite a few replies to this application, and none of them seems to satisfy the need. Perhaps these parts are very small (especially with 2mm thickness).
: : My thoughts go to Resonant Inspection using a Quasar system if these are small components (i.e. not larger than about 2.5 cm square or diameter). This would certainly detect those joints with a compromised structural integrity, althouh it would not produce a picture from a C-Scan.
: : It also does not require parallel faces, and can be applied on complex geometries.
: : It would give you a Go/NoGo answer within about 5 to 6 seconds, so is ideal for a mass produced application, and can be easily automated.
: : If this is a description of your application, please get in touch, and we will discuss how we can work together to inspect your parts.
: : Regards,
: : Godfrey Hands
: : Godfrey@ndt-consultants.co.uk
------------ End Original Message ------------




    
 
 Reply 
 
M. Kim Johnson
M. Kim Johnson
06:31 Feb-25-2005
Re: Braze joint inspection
Actually, the Quasar Process Compensated Resonant Inspection has been successful in testing braze joints similar to this. Quasar testing looks at multiple resonances and uses pattern recognition to see small structural changes and does so within a few seconds per part. It is not a simple single or double resonance test as you may be familiar with. Please call 505 247-9660 (US) if you are interested in exploring this further.

----------- Start Original Message -----------

: : Hi,
: : Thanks for all the suggestions. Our part dimensions are 150 mm x 40 mm and it is weighing around 0.5 kg each. So, I doubt whether resonant inspection can work.
: : Thanks,
: : Viswanathan.
: : : : Could anybody help us to develop a technique for braze inspection?. Two MS material blocks of maximum thickness 2 mm joined together using brazing. Brazing done using application of braze paste followed by furnace heating. Excess brazing is machined off to have a flat surface. Joint not feasible for radiography dueto complex configuration of the part. PT is being carried out. But, premature failure of the braze joint might occur without volumetric inspection. ECT and MT also maynot be possible as two different materials are invloved. COuld anybody suggest a best method to inspect the braze area?
: : : : Thanks a lot for your help
: : : :
: : : :
: : : : Braze joint inspection needs to be done
: : :
: : : Hi,
: : : I have seen quite a few replies to this application, and none of them seems to satisfy the need. Perhaps these parts are very small (especially with 2mm thickness).
: : : My thoughts go to Resonant Inspection using a Quasar system if these are small components (i.e. not larger than about 2.5 cm square or diameter). This would certainly detect those joints with a compromised structural integrity, althouh it would not produce a picture from a C-Scan.
: : : It also does not require parallel faces, and can be applied on complex geometries.
: : : It would give you a Go/NoGo answer within about 5 to 6 seconds, so is ideal for a mass produced application, and can be easily automated.
: : : If this is a description of your application, please get in touch, and we will discuss how we can work together to inspect your parts.
: : : Regards,
: : : Godfrey Hands
: : : Godfrey@ndt-consultants.co.uk
------------ End Original Message ------------





    
 
 Reply 
 
Phil Thayer
Sales, -
MISTRAS Products & Systems, USA, Joined Feb 2002, 12

Phil Thayer

Sales, -
MISTRAS Products & Systems,
USA,
Joined Feb 2002
12
07:34 Feb-25-2005
Re: Braze joint inspection

How about ultrasonic Cscan? This is very common for bonding inspection. Fast, low cost and provides map of flaws.

Phil

609-716-4051

--------- Start Original Message -----------
: Actually, the Quasar Process Compensated Resonant Inspection has been successful in testing braze joints similar to this. Quasar testing looks at multiple resonances and uses pattern recognition to see small structural changes and does so within a few seconds per part. It is not a simple single or double resonance test as you may be familiar with. Please call 505 247-9660 (US) if you are interested in exploring this further.
: : : Hi,
: : : Thanks for all the suggestions. Our part dimensions are 150 mm x 40 mm and it is weighing around 0.5 kg each. So, I doubt whether resonant inspection can work.
: : : Thanks,
: : : Viswanathan.
: : : : : Could anybody help us to develop a technique for braze inspection?. Two MS material blocks of maximum thickness 2 mm joined together using brazing. Brazing done using application of braze paste followed by furnace heating. Excess brazing is machined off to have a flat surface. Joint not feasible for radiography due to complex configuration of the part. PT is being carried out. But, premature failure of the braze joint might occur without volumetric inspection. ECT and MT also maynot be possible as two different materials are invloved. COuld anybody suggest a best method to inspect the braze area?
: : : : : Thanks a lot for your help
: : : : :
: : : : :
: : : : : Braze joint inspection needs to be done
: : : :
: : : : Hi,
: : : : I have seen quite a few replies to this application, and none of them seems to satisfy the need. Perhaps these parts are very small (especially with 2mm thickness).
: : : : My thoughts go to Resonant Inspection using a Quasar system if these are small components (i.e. not larger than about 2.5 cm square or diameter). This would certainly detect those joints with a compromised structural integrity, althouh it would not produce a picture from a C-Scan.
: : : : It also does not require parallel faces, and can be applied on complex geometries.
: : : : It would give you a Go/NoGo answer within about 5 to 6 seconds, so is ideal for a mass produced application, and can be easily automated.
: : : : If this is a description of your application, please get in touch, and we will discuss how we can work together to inspect your parts.
: : : : Regards,
: : : : Godfrey Hands
: : : : Godfrey@ndt-consultants.co.uk
------------ End Original Message ------------




    
 
 Reply 
 
Thomas Niederreiter
Thomas Niederreiter
03:07 Apr-13-2005
Re: Braze joint inspection

I´m from a german company called Themosensorik GmbH. We are developer and producer test/mesaurement systems with IR-FPA Array Cameras.As well we´re producing the cameras ourselves. Maybe we can solve your measurement problems faster and better than the already established test/measurement systems (UT and others). If you´re interessted in our skills and techniques visit our homepage and contact us by Email. Please write Your Name and NDT-NET in the Mail Subject.



    
 
 Reply 
 

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