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Technical Discussions
David Lloyd
David Lloyd
05:11 Mar-08-2006
CO2 Cylinders

I am looking for methods of measuring the contents of CO2 storage cylinders used in fire fighting installations. Isotropic measurement has been mentioned in various web resources, but can't find details of how this is applied. Can anyone point me in the right direction or suggest other alternative techniques.


    
 
 Reply 
 
Ovidiu Iuga
NDT Inspector, thermography
ISCIR, Romania, Joined Dec 2005, 16

Ovidiu Iuga

NDT Inspector, thermography
ISCIR,
Romania,
Joined Dec 2005
16
07:53 Mar-09-2006
Re: CO2 Cylinders
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: I am looking for methods of measuring the contents of CO2 storage cylinders used in fire fighting installations. Isotropic measurement has been mentioned in various web resources, but can't find details of how this is applied. Can anyone point me in the right direction or suggest other alternative techniques.
------------ End Original Message --------
You should try Infrared Termography.This is a good method for testing fluid containt in closed containers. It's used in petrochem apllications, and not only. Check on www.flir.com, or www.termoviziune.ro, or www.termografie.ro.
Regards,
O.Iuga



    
 
 Reply 
 
John Brunk
Engineering, NDT Level III
Self employed, part-time, USA, Joined Oct 1999, 159

John Brunk

Engineering, NDT Level III
Self employed, part-time,
USA,
Joined Oct 1999
159
01:26 Mar-09-2006
Re: CO2 Cylinders
----------- Start Original Message -----------
: : I am looking for methods of measuring the contents of CO2 storage cylinders used in fire fighting installations. Isotropic measurement has been mentioned in various web resources, but can't find details of how this is applied. Can anyone point me in the right direction or suggest other alternative techniques.
: ------------ End Original Message --------
: You should try Infrared Termography.This is a good method for testing fluid containt in closed containers. It's used in petrochem apllications, and not only. Check on www.flir.com, or www.termoviziune.ro, or www.termografie.ro.
: Regards,
: O.Iuga
------------ End Original Message ------------

If you are certain the cylinders contain C02 and want to know how much, this can be done with a contact ultrasonic test at relatively low frequency. It might have to be through-transmission for larger diameter cylinders. The velocity of ultrasound through the gas varies with the gas pressure. You can easily determine the cylinder ID from the wall thickness and the OD. You would need to determine a calibration for pressure vs time-of-flight. I believe NDT Systems sold some instruments and transducers for this purpose several years ago, and might be able to give you more information. Try www.ndtsystems.com



    
 
 Reply 
 
Trevor East
Trevor East
01:40 Mar-09-2006
Re: CO2 Cylinders
The thermographic method works well when the cylinder has been operated recently. The evaporation cools the liquid CO2 and the surface of the fluid shows as a well defined temperature change on the outside of the cylinder.
Do you want this test as a periodic measurement or as a full time on line monitor? There are thermally sensitive strips sold for domestic propane cylinders that show the fluid surface as a colour change. These would work for CO2 as well and could be attached to every cylinder. For example see http://www.drypak.com/index.asp?cat=109078


    
 
 Reply 
 
Mark Potter
R & D
Sonemat Ltd., United Kingdom, Joined Sep 2007, 7

Mark Potter

R & D
Sonemat Ltd.,
United Kingdom,
Joined Sep 2007
7
00:17 Mar-10-2006
Re: CO2 Cylinders
----------- Start Original Message -----------

: If you are certain the cylinders contain C02 and want to know how much, this can be done with a contact ultrasonic test at relatively low frequency. It might have to be through-transmission for larger diameter cylinders. The velocity of ultrasound through the gas varies with the gas pressure. You can easily determine the cylinder ID from the wall thickness and the OD. You would need to determine a calibration for pressure vs time-of-flight. I believe NDT Systems sold some instruments and transducers for this purpose several years ago, and might be able to give you more information. Try www.ndtsystems.com
------------ End Original Message ------------

There is also a refinement to this technique where you can calibrate out the velocity of sound in the liquid by using omni-directional transducers and comparing the arrival times of ultrasonic waves that have taken different paths. Please contact me it you want more details.

Mark.




    
 
 Reply 
 
Neil Burleigh
Sales
Krautkramer Australia Pty Ltd, Australia, Joined Dec 2002, 156

Neil Burleigh

Sales
Krautkramer Australia Pty Ltd,
Australia,
Joined Dec 2002
156
01:58 Mar-12-2006
Re: CO2 Cylinders
The acoustic properties of carbon dioxide make it very difficult using conventional UT to try and obtain reproducible results for level measurement of CO2 in gas cylinders.
A company in the USA produced a UT device which worked very well and our Australian Navy used it.
It is from Cemetron Fire Systems the Cali 2000A. I was able to get a price from Badger Fire Protection.

Regards

Neil Burleigh

----------- Start Original Message -----------
: : If you are certain the cylinders contain C02 and want to know how much, this can be done with a contact ultrasonic test at relatively low frequency. It might have to be through-transmission for larger diameter cylinders. The velocity of ultrasound through the gas varies with the gas pressure. You can easily determine the cylinder ID from the wall thickness and the OD. You would need to determine a calibration for pressure vs time-of-flight. I believe NDT Systems sold some instruments and transducers for this purpose several years ago, and mightbe able to give you more information. Try www.ndtsystems.com
: There is also a refinement to this technique where you can calibrate out the velocity of sound in the liquid by using omni-directional transducers and comparing the arrival times of ultrasonic waves that have taken different paths. Please contact me it you want more details.
: Mark.
------------ End Original Message ------------




    
 
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